High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters • Hacker News Board

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#221

Post by emcrazyone » Sat, Feb 06, 2016, 7:07 PM UTC

hacknat wrote: post #212

rupert_murdaaa wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No, you never give out a number. It's like asking the person sitting across from you to show you their cards before placing a bet. The thing I've never understood about this approach is the reason it's suggested not to give your number first is, presumably, it can anchor your salary negotiations lower than what the company was originally prepared to offer. I've switched jobs a few times for no other reason than to g…

The "never give it out" camp always, to me, seems to be making the assumption that salary negotiation is exactly like a game of poker. No one could ever guess what's in your hand and you can't guess what's in theirs. You better bluff all the way to the end and if your hand is better then you win. Most people can look at payscale or glassdoor though. If I'm putting out a Junior req for a front end position for a CRUD…

100% agree with just about everything you said except if I may expand a bit.

"If someone comes in and their range doesn't overlap with mine"

Right there is where I think both sides need to do their homework. I have interviewed many candidates over the years that had no clue what the going rate was for a given market and given area.

Example: Oracle DBAs in New York and SanFran command more than the same Oracle DBA working in Detroit at one of the big 3 automotive companies. If you don't understand these dynamics, you're pretty much at a disadvantage and that goes for both sides.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#222

Post by gaius » Sat, Feb 06, 2016, 7:21 PM UTC

greggarious wrote: post #81

Spooky23 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At 45 you become untouchable. Too old to be young, too young to be old. How many 50 year olds do you see in SV companies? I knew a guy who was about 50, brilliant, brilliant engineer working for one of the big IT players. Well respected and trusted advisor to many customers. He got vaporized in some big restructuring that hit his division. Because of non-compete and what he did, he was basically out of work for almos…

I don't understand - I thought non-competes were unenforceable in CA?

Usually a non-compete would be void if you were laid off.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#223

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Feb 06, 2016, 7:38 PM UTC

pmoriarty wrote: post #20

"Time and again, he says, employers seem to lose interest after he answers a question that they ask early on: 'What was your last salary?'" I never answer that question. Almost always it's been recruiters asking that (and only some recruiters, the less reputable ones). This is a seller's market for IT talent. You don't have to give in to bullying tactics to get a good job. I've had to walk away exactly once when a re…

[deleted]

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#224

Post by Consultant32452 » Sat, Feb 06, 2016, 7:41 PM UTC

hibikir wrote: post #214

Consultant32452 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may also largely depend on who the recruiter you're talking to works for. If it's HR for the company that's different than a third party technical recruiter like a TEKSystems or something. The third party technical recruiter, which is who I'm usually talking to, has no real incentive to low-ball you.

It depends on the Tech recruiter. If you are going to contract through one of those companies, some scumbags will NOT give you the real billing rate, and thus have plenty of reasons to screw you. I have seen how a vendor might charge the same for three people, and then learn through other sources that those three people were getting paid differently by the vendor. A vendor can also ask for a rate increase, and just n…

I've been consulting for years now and I almost never know what the consulting firm bills for my time. It's irrelevant to me. My rate is already above the rate in my market. If someone lands me a gig and they have 100% markup, then good on them.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#225

Post by wyclif » Sat, Feb 06, 2016, 8:27 PM UTC

OhHeyItsE wrote: post #9

Finding engineers is soooo hard! There are no good engineers!

"There's no shortage of smart, hardworking engineers. There's a shortage of smart, hardworking engineers willing to work for very little money." ~ David "Pardo" Keppel

If you're having trouble hiring, it's probably because you're not paying enough. It turns out that talented people are worth paying a lot for.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#226

Post by fweespeech » Sat, Feb 06, 2016, 9:19 PM UTC

delphinius81 wrote: post #141

fweespeech wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same job title. All relatively junior developers with less than 10 years of experience. Unicorn has 4.

How are you a junior developer after 10 years of experience? That's pretty mid/senior level at that point.

I said relatively junior. [i.e. They have no management responsibilities and are pure developers]

We pretty much have Developer -> Senior Developer -> CTO.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#227

Post by Riod » Sat, Feb 06, 2016, 9:24 PM UTC

tossaway1 wrote: post #180

Riod wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a fit issue. They just don't want to work for that wage. Find someone who will. Why do they have to ask? If you're really interested in efficiency, state it upfront, atleast the lower and upper bounds.

It doesn't matter to me who asks first, just the the discussion is had to avoid wasting time if it's likely to be a problem. Sometimes they ask about salary range, sometimes I ask about salary requirements. Debating whether a disconnect on $$ is a "fit" issue seems kind of silly. If it's not a job they would take because of pay, it's not a good fit for them.

Precision matters. Fit is a poorly used term to basically mean, we don't want you for reason X but don't want to tell you that.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#228

Post by tossaway1 » Sat, Feb 06, 2016, 11:31 PM UTC

Riod wrote: post #227

tossaway1 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter to me who asks first, just the the discussion is had to avoid wasting time if it's likely to be a problem. Sometimes they ask about salary range, sometimes I ask about salary requirements. Debating whether a disconnect on $$ is a "fit" issue seems kind of silly. If it's not a job they would take because of pay, it's not a good fit for them.

Precision matters. Fit is a poorly used term to basically mean, we don't want you for reason X but don't want to tell you that.

Precision matters, but you're just nitpicking based on your interpretation of "fit". I guess you're thinking of it as whether the candidate is "fit" for the position. My use of it was referring to whether it was a fit for what they're looking for (where money is obviously an important factor).

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#229

Post by Riod » Sat, Feb 06, 2016, 11:49 PM UTC

tossaway1 wrote: post #228

Riod wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Precision matters. Fit is a poorly used term to basically mean, we don't want you for reason X but don't want to tell you that.

Precision matters, but you're just nitpicking based on your interpretation of "fit". I guess you're thinking of it as whether the candidate is "fit" for the position. My use of it was referring to whether it was a fit for what they're looking for (where money is obviously an important factor).

Simple solution. Set up an Ask HN: What does job not being a good fit mean to you. See how many people say it relates to cultural fit vs pay.

Re: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters

#230

Post by akgerber » Sun, Feb 07, 2016, 3:03 PM UTC

lastofus wrote: post #86

maxsilver wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where is it that late-career engineers are barely pulling in six figures? Almost everywhere in the Midwest, except Chicago perhaps. Unless your remote working, low cost of living doesn't come without a big catch.

6 figures is the exception, but it's far from impossible in Milwaukee and Madison writing code.

Who hires many people in tech in Milwaukee? I'm from there and don't know of anywhere that does much other than basic in-house line-of-business software— is it just banks and insurance companies?