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Secret US flight flew over Scottish airspace to capture Snowden

thenational.scot

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Re: Secret US flight flew over Scottish airspace to capture Snowden

#221

Post by oceanstone »

rconti wrote: post #220
oceanstone wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A principled president would have owned up to the misconduct and taken steps to regain the public trust. A principled president would be ashamed of the chilling effect on journalists. There were only two Senators who voted against the "Freedom" Act [1] and also supported defensible net neutrality [2]. One of them is now a presidential candidate. Last May, they wrote: "I voted against the Patriot Act every time, and…

I assume you mean Rand Paul; he has suspended his campaign for President.

Bernie Sanders actually, check out the links.

Re: Secret US flight flew over Scottish airspace to capture Snowden

#222

Post by oceanstone »

woah wrote: post #219
oceanstone wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A principled president would have owned up to the misconduct and taken steps to regain the public trust. A principled president would be ashamed of the chilling effect on journalists. There were only two Senators who voted against the "Freedom" Act [1] and also supported defensible net neutrality [2]. One of them is now a presidential candidate. Last May, they wrote: "I voted against the Patriot Act every time, and…

Regardless of your feelings on net neutrality, it is a completely different topic and the fact that you bring it up is strange.

Net neutrality is an important issue for many posters on Hacker News.

Re: Secret US flight flew over Scottish airspace to capture Snowden

#223

Post by [deleted] »

vonklaus wrote: post #198
oceanstone wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A principled president would have owned up to the misconduct and taken steps to regain the public trust. A principled president would be ashamed of the chilling effect on journalists. There were only two Senators who voted against the "Freedom" Act [1] and also supported defensible net neutrality [2]. One of them is now a presidential candidate. Last May, they wrote: "I voted against the Patriot Act every time, and…

link [1] is down, in fact several links at senate.gov are down. I don't want to say your claim is disingenuous because you did throw a caveat in there, however Rand Paul did not support handing the internet off to the FCC to regulate if we want to call that defensible. He did however publicly rail against the freedom act and tried to fillibuster it though ultimately that failed.

[deleted]

Re: Secret US flight flew over Scottish airspace to capture Snowden

#224

Post by gsnedders »

tptacek wrote: post #190
kafkaesq wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, some sort of extra- or pseudojudicial rendition, then.

Based on what evidence? Most of the EU will respond to extradition requests and render subjects in response to the crimes Snowden was indicted for.

I would expect the US to have planned for how to perform such a kidnapping, because dealing with rogue agents in one way or another is very definitely someone's job. I would be amazed if there wasn't a report giving a number of options and pros and cons for each compiled—of course, how it was acted on is anyone's guess.

Re: Secret US flight flew over Scottish airspace to capture Snowden

#225

Post by oceanstone »

vonklaus wrote: post #198
oceanstone wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A principled president would have owned up to the misconduct and taken steps to regain the public trust. A principled president would be ashamed of the chilling effect on journalists. There were only two Senators who voted against the "Freedom" Act [1] and also supported defensible net neutrality [2]. One of them is now a presidential candidate. Last May, they wrote: "I voted against the Patriot Act every time, and…

link [1] is down, in fact several links at senate.gov are down. I don't want to say your claim is disingenuous because you did throw a caveat in there, however Rand Paul did not support handing the internet off to the FCC to regulate if we want to call that defensible. He did however publicly rail against the freedom act and tried to fillibuster it though ultimately that failed.

My comment was actually referring to Bernie Sanders. You're right though, Rand Paul did a lot to fight the "Freedom" Act.

Re: Secret US flight flew over Scottish airspace to capture Snowden

#226

Post by gsnedders »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #193
slr555 wrote: post #184

The range of a Gulfstream V is about 6500 miles. Given that fact the jet could have easily flown without entering UK airspace at all. The Gulfstream V also has an initial cruising altitude of 41,000 feet with a max of 51,000 feet. 45,000 feet may be high for a commercial jet but the G5 cruises comfortably at that altitude. Given these facts I am not sure why the CIA would create the exposure flying over the UK would…

There's safety restrictions for flight paths - in case of sudden engine failure, you want the plane to be able to glide to an airfield or other inhabited areas that you can get rescued from. I'm also not familiar enough with air-traffic control rules in the area to be sure, but it looks like you'd have to either pass through Icelandic or Scottish airspace to get to Scandinavia.

> I'm also not familiar enough with air-traffic control rules in the area to be sure, but it looks like you'd have to either pass through Icelandic or Scottish airspace to get to Scandinavia.

There's two separate issues there: there's airspace controlled by the Iceland and the UK and there's sovereign airspace. In the case of the UK and Iceland, the airspace they control goes far beyond the sovereign airspace.

Re: Secret US flight flew over Scottish airspace to capture Snowden

#227

Post by jessaustin »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #176
grandalf wrote: post #120

If it weren't for the mistreatment of Bradley Manning, I'd consider US Government attempts to capture Snowden somewhat reasonable. If (in hindsight) there had been any high level response acknowledging the inappropriateness of any of the revealed programs, and attempting to fix or impose accountability measures on covert programs, I'd feel reassured that the bad behavior evidenced by the leaked information was an ano…

You should consider that the utter silence to which you refer has an alternative interpretation. Namely that the powerful people have said nothing not because they are afraid, but because they are unconcerned.

Our powerful people don't read much history, do they? Perhaps they think that the monster will stay on the leash this time. That's cute.

Re: Secret US flight flew over Scottish airspace to capture Snowden

#229

Post by mturmon »

caskance wrote: post #210
mturmon wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also enjoyed this tidbit in the article, which I had not known before: "The presidential plane of Bolivian leader Evo Morales was forced to ground in Vienna, after four EU nations refused airspace access on the mistaken belief that Snowden was hidden on board." Can you imagine the feeling of impotence, as a national president, when your plane is forced to land because of such suspicions?

That feeling is warranted. Relative to the US, Bolivia is impotent.

Indeed. Having it demonstrated so viscerally would make an impact. Apparently the Austrian police briefly boarded his plane, although a spokesman in his government denied it.

It also speaks to the panic of the American government in those days about Snowden.

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