Employees at Airbnb, Square and Stripe Are Spending 50%+ of Income on SF Rent • Hacker News Board

Re: Employees at Airbnb, Square and Stripe Are Spending 50%+ of Income on SF Rent

#221

Post by chipotle_coyote » Wed, Sep 30, 2015, 10:52 PM UTC

snomad wrote: post #47

I remain surprised that Bay Area tech companies don't move to Sacramento. Near the Bar Area for quick access, near the state seat of power for lobbying, well away from major faults so less prone to earthquakes, significantly lower costs of housing (2 Bdrm apt would be about $1k) - so presumably could save on salary.

The problem is that "near the Bay Area" is pretty relative; the travel between them is 2+ hours without substantial traffic, and most people aren't going to want to make that commute. So that leaves you with some of the drawbacks others have mentioned in this thread: if your company is there, you'll likely have a smaller talent pool to draw from; if you live there and you lose your job, you'll have a smaller pool of companies to move to.

Having said that, Sacramento is a much nicer place than a lot of folks in the Bay Area give it credit for -- a lot of pretty, walkable neighborhoods, a lot of good cafes and bars and restaurants and "third wave" coffee places, and as you mentioned a way lower cost of living. The only real downside (setting aside the commute) is that it gets ungodly hot in the summer.

Re: Employees at Airbnb, Square and Stripe Are Spending 50%+ of Income on SF Rent

#222

Post by sawthat » Wed, Sep 30, 2015, 10:52 PM UTC

roymurdock wrote: post #61

I always see articles like this and I wonder...who is winning here? I'm waiting for an article to break out the stats on who owns which property in these types of areas. What % of housing is owned by the government, foreign investors, domestic investors, institutional investors, real-estate holding companies, and the actual inhabitants of the property? For all we know, the whole story could just be that tech companie…

Long story short: people that own single family homes in SF are winning the most because of the massive gains in value and we don't have to pay increased property taxes because of proposition 13. Basically anyone who currently owns property in SF is a "winner" and that includes the many small time property owners that own the 2-6 unit buildings that dominate the city. The rent money is flowing to those people. Who probably are mostly local.

Re: Employees at Airbnb, Square and Stripe Are Spending 50%+ of Income on SF Rent

#223

Post by presidentender » Wed, Sep 30, 2015, 10:53 PM UTC

sjg007 wrote: post #204

pbreit wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a new hypothesis that I may actually try out: it's the business people that should be in the Bay Area but the engineers can be elsewhere. A lot of the companies having a great deal of success are iterating on the business model, customer acquisition and user experience side of things far more so than on the technology or engineering. I am hypothesizing that it is those people that benefit from being in the Bay…

they tried this with outsourcing and it didn't work.

It's working fine for SoFi.

Re: Employees at Airbnb, Square and Stripe Are Spending 50%+ of Income on SF Rent

#224

Post by dijit » Wed, Sep 30, 2015, 10:53 PM UTC

ionforce wrote: post #212

dijit wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going to say something to this effect. This figure does not surprise me in the slightest. In London I was _easily_ paying 50% of my salary after tax in rent, because I didn't want to share an apartment with someone else.

So do software engineers typically live alone in London or no?

no, flatsharing (where the living room is converted into another bedroom) is increasingly common.

Re: Employees at Airbnb, Square and Stripe Are Spending 50%+ of Income on SF Rent

#225

Post by gorkemyurt » Wed, Sep 30, 2015, 10:54 PM UTC

steven2012 wrote: post #36

Most people don't live by themselves in a 1 bedroom. They usually live 2+ people per room, so that they can afford it. For example, a 2 br apt might have 5 people living there, two couples and then one living in the living room. That's how they can afford the $5000/month rent.

yes people live with roommates in separate rooms, and some convert a part of their living room to another room (this is actually really common) but I know very few people living 2+ (you seriously mean 3 or 4 here?)

Re: Employees at Airbnb, Square and Stripe Are Spending 50%+ of Income on SF Rent

#226

Post by sawthat » Wed, Sep 30, 2015, 10:54 PM UTC

20years wrote: post #37

Why aren't more companies investing in building out remote teams? Have the main office with a small core team in SF but hire remote devs, customer service, sales. Seems like it would save companies a ton of money and devs would be happier too because they would actually be pocketing more.

People have been trying to do this for thirty years. No idea why it never seems to stick, but it doesn't.

Re: Employees at Airbnb, Square and Stripe Are Spending 50%+ of Income on SF Rent

#227

Post by sjg007 » Wed, Sep 30, 2015, 10:55 PM UTC

gricardo99 wrote: post #152

I recently turned-down a great job offer for a Bay area tech company. Their office was just too far outside my commute range. I even offered to remote-work part-time and be in the office some days a week (I had already been a 100% remote worker for 3+ years, so I had a proven track record as a remote worker). But the founder insisted everyone be on-site, daily, even though many aspects of the company were quite comfo…

I thought the example already was Atlassian.

Re: Employees at Airbnb, Square and Stripe Are Spending 50%+ of Income on SF Rent

#228

Post by amorphid » Wed, Sep 30, 2015, 10:58 PM UTC

rconti wrote: post #174

ec072201-474b wrote: post #79

I was recently contemplating the hostility between tech workers and some SF residents who have lived here longer. Long-term residents blame tech workers for increasing housing prices and resulting evictions, but high rent is detrimental to both groups. Then I considered the interest group who is coming out on top in all of this: SF property owners. The total value of all residential property in SF is probably well in…

Prop 17 in CA magnifies the effect. When your property taxes can only go up by a small amount every year, there's literally no incentive for your property values to not go sky-high.

I'm pretty sure you mean Prop 13... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_13_(197...

Prop 17 is something else entirely :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_17_(197...

Re: Employees at Airbnb, Square and Stripe Are Spending 50%+ of Income on SF Rent

#229

Post by mjevans » Wed, Sep 30, 2015, 11:03 PM UTC

mikestew wrote: post #165

retbull wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NOOOOOOO. Don't tell anyone. It is terrible here and there is lots of sadness from all the rain. I hate Seattle. Seriously though F * 405 traffic. The new "Toll route" is a nightmare and now everyone is using side roads making my drive to work from a quick 10 min jaunt into a 25-30 min parking lot.

I ride a motorcycle every day from Redmond to Seattle. The new express lanes have screwed it up even for me, even though I get to use those lanes. Problem now is getting to those lanes. Traffic in the other lanes is now worse, and I can't cross the double white lines until about a mile after I get on 405. Granted, it adds maybe five minutes at most. But it poses the question: who are those lanes supposed to help if i…

Who do you think is making money on running this system? Surely someone is, that's why (in their view) it's 'successful' everywhere... (Successful being to extort the upper middle class for an unfair share of taxes, and regressively dis-enfranchise everyone under them by making their commutes worse so those 'lucky few' can pay a premium to drive at least 45MPH.)

The real solution, as pointed out above, involves incentives for desired behavior from all actors via taxes/tax breaks (stick/carrot). Parties that should be affected include businesses, employees, housing providers, and civic planners on all levels. The true cost of living rural should be felt (you should /pay/ for your share of the infrastructure required to provide /you/ with modern services; but you should /get/ them, including actual /good/ Internet). The true cost of employing should be felt (pay for the infrastructure to get workers to you, and for the education that trained them). Housing should be more consistently priced, in city and out, and should also scale up large enough to have 'raise a family well' sized dwellings. Also while you're at it, discount taxes slightly for better auditory insulation (or make it a side effect of /awesome/ fire codes).

This way workers would be more likely to be able to afford to live, and thus move closer to their jobs. With the lack of 'lifetime employment' at a company, responsible living is now an apartment, not a house.

Re: Employees at Airbnb, Square and Stripe Are Spending 50%+ of Income on SF Rent

#230

Post by ryandrake » Wed, Sep 30, 2015, 11:04 PM UTC

WalterSear wrote: post #33

nullrouted wrote: post #2

Which is silly....honestly companies need to start opening offices in more affordable areas. Colorado (Blouder, Denver, The Springs), Texas (Austin, San Antonio), Missouri (Kansas City, Saint Louis)....there are so many places you can put your employees that saves them money as well as your company a lot of money not only in Salaries because you'll be able to employees less but your rent/power/etc.

This is one of those things that is a great idea until it isn't. When your employer goes belly up, in SF, you have to fight off job offers. That's not going to be the case elsewhere. It's also much harder on the employers: if you think finding one good job is hard, try hiring an entire team of decent employees at once. Ultimately, it's worth the extra cost of staying where the tech is, prefixing your city name ala 'S…

Keep in mind that the job market is not predictable. For the moment, getting a job seems to be a little less painful than it usually is, but I will bet you any amount of money you want that this situation won't last. Remember 2007/2008... nobody was "fighting off job offers" back then.