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Dropbox has open-sourced Zulip

zulip.org

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Re: Dropbox has open-sourced Zulip

#221

Post by voltagex_ »

shanemhansen wrote: post #95
JoshM33k wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those types of fragmentation issues never went away, they just changed focus. Whether it is Slack vs. Hipchat vs. Zulip, or WhatsApp vs. iMessage vs. text vs. Hangouts... more options means more (and easier!) ways to contact friends, family, and coworkers, but also means that you have to memorize a "best way to reach me" chart for each individual person.

Every week I have to use a Cisco jabber client, Hipchat, Slack, and Hangouts within the same company. I know it's got less of a "cool" factor because it wasn't invented last week, but I soooo wish everyone would just use IRC. Use irccloud if you want some nice apps and picture embedding.

What I posted in another thread still stands - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10256943. Things were better when everything was brought under one client. I know iMessage is almost impossible to reverse-engineer (due to Apple kicking non-iClients off) but I wish there was more effort going into reversing Hangouts. Someone's emulated the JS client from GMail but that's about as far as it's got

Re: Dropbox has open-sourced Zulip

#222

Post by voltagex_ »

scrollaway wrote: post #143
rikkus wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it possible to get what Slack provides using IRC? I mean the whole package, not just the text chat. Consider enterprise-friendliness, excellent mobile clients, zero-setup required (no separate keep-you-online relays), really easy integrations, etc.? We are adopting Slack because it's great and I'd have loved to make a case for IRC but I wouldn't know what server to recommend (we don't really want to install it, bu…

The closest you can get is a foss slack alternative such as Mattermost, and push for an IRC bridge (Mattermost is working on it it seems: https://github.com/mattermost/platform/issues/650 ). But it's not possible to get what you're asking without breaking the IRC protocol - it's not easily extended and the formatting rules are icky mIRC crap.

Go help with IRCv3 - you're talking about capabilities, which are part of the v3 protocol.

http://ircv3.net/specs/core/capability-negotiation-3.2.html

Re: Dropbox has open-sourced Zulip

#223

Post by voltagex_ »

it33 wrote: post #164
SwellJoe wrote: post #10

I was just about to try out Mattermost for our company communications. It integrates with a few things including gitlab, but Zulip seems to have a larger number of integration options, which is awesome. Anybody tried both and have thoughts on them? I still prefer to host my own infrastructure, and I want to be able to archive and categorize a discussion (after it's happened) for searchability, but a couple of our peo…

Hi SwellJoe, Mattermost team here. We've had requests for XMPP, and potentially it can be added in future. Feature idea can be tracked here (and more ideas welcome!): http://mattermost.uservoice.com/forums/306457-general/sugges... That said, communication has changed significantly since the XMPP standard. For example, after we implemented markdown in Mattermost it's really hard to go back ( http://www.mattermost.org/…

Have you had a look at IRCv3? Specifically capability negotiation - http://ircv3.net/specs/core/capability-negotiation-3.2.html

Re: Dropbox has open-sourced Zulip

#224

Post by sitkack »

fletchowns wrote: post #96
scrollaway wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sad as it may be, it's pretty clear at this point that XMPP won't be the communication protocol of the future. Everyone who ever seriously worked on it seem to have come out of the experience a broken man. Setting it up requires pretty deep knowledge and the promises of compatibility with most XMPP servers break down pretty fast unless you know which extensions to support. All these problems are fixable but I don't s…

Who might be the right entity to take on creating a replacement for XMPP?

I don't know who will do it, but it will be in-band, meaning inside http and using html5.

Re: Dropbox has open-sourced Zulip

#225

Post by ara4n »

tbingmann wrote: post #8

Slack, Zulip, this feels like we are back in 1999, when the internet was divided by ICQ, AOL Instant Messanger, Windows Live Messanger, and Yahoo Messanger. (Instant/Live was a plus back then). And the only innovation over IRC was a backlog and buddy list. I wonder when the Trillian of Slack+Zulip will come out. I hope Trillian (which still exists) is already working on it.

This is precisely the problem we're working on with Matrix.org - providing a standard API that can be used to bridge together all of these different protocols in one decentralised model. It's better than Trillian in that the defragmentation happens serverside and you can use any compatible client with it (or one of the existing services if you prefer). For instance, we turned on our first MatrixSlack bridge this week - see https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-appservice-bridge/blob/... for how easy it was.

Re: Dropbox has open-sourced Zulip

#226

Post by ara4n »

inopinatus wrote: post #144
rikkus wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it possible to get what Slack provides using IRC? I mean the whole package, not just the text chat. Consider enterprise-friendliness, excellent mobile clients, zero-setup required (no separate keep-you-online relays), really easy integrations, etc.? We are adopting Slack because it's great and I'd have loved to make a case for IRC but I wouldn't know what server to recommend (we don't really want to install it, bu…

Also in-client searchable archives, media handling, history editing. All require going outside the IRC protocols. IRC was designed by hackers, for hackers and it shows. Twenty years ago, IRC was my talk destination of choice and I operated a server within a major IRC network; these days my startup uses Slack which I determined to be the "least irritating" of the 21st century options. I had high hopes for Google Wave…

Matrix.org is heavily inspired by Wave, albeit using HTTP rather than XMPp, for those searching a more alive option :)

Re: Dropbox has open-sourced Zulip

#227

Post by ara4n »

fletchowns wrote: post #96
scrollaway wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sad as it may be, it's pretty clear at this point that XMPP won't be the communication protocol of the future. Everyone who ever seriously worked on it seem to have come out of the experience a broken man. Setting it up requires pretty deep knowledge and the promises of compatibility with most XMPP servers break down pretty fast unless you know which extensions to support. All these problems are fixable but I don't s…

Who might be the right entity to take on creating a replacement for XMPP?

Whilst we're not trying to replace XMPP, Matrix.org does provide an entirely different architecture (decentralised and evetually-consistent history, high baseline feature set, HTTP-based, etc) that can be used for group chat/VoIP/etc.

Re: Dropbox has open-sourced Zulip

#229

Post by ara4n »

SwellJoe wrote: post #69
proksoup wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think HipChat might be the only one backing the XMPP horse still. A timeline [1]. [1] https://cdn.sameroom.io/chat-timeline.pdf

HipChat, while providing the XMPP backend, and a self-hosted option, isn't cheap, and doesn't seem to provide the extensibility that an open source option would. But, it's certainly closer to the right thing than Slack (at least, from a surface level examination). I guess it doesn't even need to be XMPP, specifically. But, some open standard and some level of interoperability would be nice. In googling I came upon ma…

[Matrix lead here] The open source clients for both Matrix and XMPP are improving a lot currently. On the Matrix side there's vector.im; on XMPP there's Kaiwa and Conversations.im. If you want to help break the fragmentation and have an open standards based approach please run the clients and help us make them better - it is open source, after all!

Re: Dropbox has open-sourced Zulip

#230

Post by loosescrews »

pjtr wrote: post #218

What do Zulip / Slack / Hipchat / IRC / ... people do for screensharing and (group) voice calls? We'd love the chat improvements, but without screensharing and voice we're stuck on Skype. :(

There is also Chromebox for Meetings[1]: https://www.google.com/work/chrome/devices/for-meetings/
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