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HP to cut 25-30k jobs

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Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#221

Post by mring33621 »

BorgHunter wrote: post #175
spacecowboy_lon wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even when you have been made redundant?

It seems to depend on the totality of the circumstances, in Illinois, so I'd imagine the nonvoluntary nature of the termination would be taken into account. But there doesn't seem to be a clear answer. If it ended up in litigation it could get messy; there isn't a terribly large amount of guidance from the courts.

Regardless of the possibility of litigation, the logic is very simple: 1) a non-compete indicates that the employee has some skillset or knowledge that the business does not want to lose to a competitor; 2) the involuntary release of that same employee indicates that (1) is no longer true, unless the released employee is fairly compensated for the non-compete period.

I would feel pretty comfortable presenting this argument to a judge, even without a lawyer present.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#222

Post by protomyth »

prodmerc wrote: post #128
brudgers wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an HP11C calculator I bought in 1989 I still use. It cost almost $100 back then. The first HP printer I bought was a DeskJet 550c. Made a beautiful whooshing and humming noises. Kept it for more than 10 years. When they discovered a tendency for premature wear on the pickup rollers, HP sent me a maintenance kit: one day it just showed up with instructions. I had a zd7000 laptop in the early oughts. It was pret…

LaserJets were always good, but their inkjets (DerpJets, all of them :-)) were always horrible in my experience. Then again, I've never worked with other printers for a long period of time (my employer used all HP), so I can't compare...

Back in the 90's, we had a LaserJet 4 we loaded with max memory and the PostScript card. It was an absolute workhorse for 4 years. The only problem we had was the 100 year old building we were in had high humidity in the summer so we switch from 20lb paper to 28lb so it wouldn't crinkle up in the printer.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#223

Post by hwstar »

jsprogrammer wrote: post #117
cmurf wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he's called-in to early retire or otherwise let go, make sure he doesn't sign a non-compete at that time. He should have anything he has signed, and is asked to sign, reviewed by an attorney. It's just not reasonable for companies to terminate someone's job and tell them they can't compete including being hired by a competitor, but they try this all the time in blatant ways and it's not just the old guard companie…

Would HP really try to get someone they are laying off to sign a noncompete contact?

I don't know about HP, but a common tactic is present a noncompete few weeks before a mass layoff and stipulate it is: "Sign or be fired". In some states, this works because your future employment can be viewed as sufficient consideration.

IMHO Noncompetes should be banned, or there needs to be legislation which requires the employer to pay 100% of the salary of the laid off person for the rest of the term of the noncompete. If they want to prevent the ex-employee from going into business and competing against them, they need to pay the ex-employee for the privilege.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#224

Post by scottkduncan »

reuven wrote: post #181
seibelj wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just think it's the wrong way to look at things. It's better to cut 30,000 to save the company, than to keep everyone hired and wait for every employee to be out of work.

Maybe. And I fully admit that given those two choices, it's better to save the company and lay of 30k people. But I do have to wonder how the company grew to be so bloated and large. Perhaps it was unfair for HP to hire them to begin with. I fully recognize that at the end of a day, an unprofitable company doesn't do anyone any good. It's just sad for me to think that the only way to make the company profitable is to…

A lot goes back to the EDS acquisition, which seemed doomed almost from the start. A poorly planned acquisition + longstanding internal issues will almost inevitably get you to this kind of outcome.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#225

Post by steego »

sixbrx wrote: post #143
adventured wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not enough jobs to go around? I disagree. There are ~5.8 million job openings as of the end of July. The highest level maybe in 15 years [1]. The unemployed worker per job opening ratio is also at the lowest in 15 years [2]. The U6 unemployment rate for people that have some college is 5.x%; the unemployment rate for people with a four year degree is 2.x%. There have been eight million full-time jobs added in just fo…

I remember reading somewhere that it's a bit different for the over 50 crowd, even for PhD's.

There is definitely a higher expectation for someone over 50 and with someone with an advanced degree. It's both unfair and understandable because the subconscious implication is experience and advanced degrees cost more, so they will be subject to intense scrutiny to make sure paying someone a premium is worth it. Basically, a guy over 50 with a PhD better be a convincing Donald Knuth or good management material.

Also, I think team leads tell themselves they can mold young developers in their image. Not only are you getting a developer at a discount, you're getting a potential clone. What's not to love?

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#226

Post by hwstar »

VLM wrote: post #185
x0x0 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CA/usa, broken ankle, two surgeries: $110k in billings. All told, probably 10-12 doctor-hours. Insurance, beyond insuring you, does something perhaps more important: they negotiate massive discounts with all medical practices/hospitals/etc. My insurer negotiated that to something reasonable (approx $35k, though memory fails me); I could even afford that if I needed to. Crucially (and I understand this is fucking stup…

"uninsured people pay way more" A minor but important correction is they are billed way more, not necessarily pay way more. For example I dated a girl who just out of high school with no insurance had a really badly broken arm (car accident IIRC) and the hospital "charged" her, in total, $100K+ as an imaginary amount, complained at her for awhile, and then they wrote her off after some token payment (more than they w…

Except:

1. Bankruptcy can only be filed once every 7 years. What happens if there are medical complications and you are re-hospitalized after you filed for bankruptcy? Answer: You are screwed.

2. It's usually far cheaper and less hassle to purchase an ACA policy to prevent being presented with these large bills in the first place.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#228

Post by mkhpalm »

You know layoffs are coming up when your boss starts announcing things like dress codes in R&D due to "customer complaints". Severance packages are way more expensive than people leaving on their own.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#229

Post by klean92 »

kazagistar wrote: post #71
jfoutz wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your dad needs to think about the next best 5 guys, and how to pick them up for cheap when the layoffs happen. At his age striking out on his own will seem absolutely terrifying. Work on him for a few months. He must have built up some serious contacts over the years. His pitch is straightforward. HP can't actually support their products anymore, they don't have the staff. He knows the hardware inside and out. Sell s…

There is probably a non compete exactly for this situation.

I see no chance in the world that a bleeding company busy laying off and restructuring will sue a laid off worker because he's trying to make 50-100K a year. Why would they pay more expensive lawyers to do that?

If the lay him off, it really meams they don't want that kind of business anyway. Companies are driven by business people, not lawyers.

Re: HP to cut 25-30k jobs

#230

Post by brudgers »

robin_reala wrote: post #90
brudgers wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an HP11C calculator I bought in 1989 I still use. It cost almost $100 back then. The first HP printer I bought was a DeskJet 550c. Made a beautiful whooshing and humming noises. Kept it for more than 10 years. When they discovered a tendency for premature wear on the pickup rollers, HP sent me a maintenance kit: one day it just showed up with instructions. I had a zd7000 laptop in the early oughts. It was pret…

I remember that maintenance kit. Big solid metal thing that fitted into the paper feed and a ROM cartridge to go with it. Must have cost them serious money to design, build and ship that.

It was the sort of thing an engineer would say a customer deserved. Then again my 550c was a $500 printer...I found the receipt in an file folder a few months ago while pitching old records.
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