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Why do people waste so much time at work?

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211–220 of 230 posts

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd suggest replacing an income tax with a sales tax though. One 'punishes' earning, the other 'punishes' spending. Additionally you simplify enforcement by narrowing the collection points considerably. Talk about simple, you don't ever files taxes as an individual. That mixed with basic income is a good plan from my non-economist POV. I've sure someone far smarter that I can explain why I'm amazingly naïve.

From what I've read on the subject: Economically, you want to keep money flowing through the system as fast as possible. One dollar spent three times in a year contributes more to the economy than two dollars spent once. (I could imagine it even contributing more three dollars spent once due to participating in more transactions, but I don't know how you'd model that.) If you tax spending, you incentivize hoarding ca…

Is not spending money such a bad thing?

If your entire economy is propped up by increasing levels of spending, isn't that a serious problem that could explode?

Even if you tax sales and incentivize saving, people will still spend money. They obviously need to purchase basic goods, and people will still want luxuries.

So, will people save more? Probably. Will they stop spending and throw the economy into a downward death spiral? Highly doubtful.

As a followup, it has the added benefit of still getting tax money from the black market. If you are a drug dealer, you don't pay income tax, right? But you still buy goods and probably quite a few luxury goods. It also would capture tax money from the very wealthy if you drop all tax exemptions so they couldn't pay someone to find a loophole. It's not like they sit on their large sums of money and never purchase things.

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#212

"We must do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because…

I don't think that having jobs is the problem. A lot of people can benefit from having jobs. Ideally a workplace should provide a way to develop people, a stable income and clear goals. It is also less risky for the employer (doesn't have to search for someone when a task needs to be done) and the employees (stable income). I personally like to work in an environment where I can decide what has to be done, how to do…

>Ideally a workplace should provide a way to develop people, a stable income and clear goals.

Why? Employers hire people because they, the employers, have goals (possibly very unclear), and their goals require more work than they can do alone as one person, and so they hire people to whom to delegate the work (this can happen recursively). Employers really aren't concerned with personal development or the employee's income as a matter of necessity, only if they happen to be unusually humane and personable, or the labor market happens to be unusually tight.

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've read on the subject: Economically, you want to keep money flowing through the system as fast as possible. One dollar spent three times in a year contributes more to the economy than two dollars spent once. (I could imagine it even contributing more three dollars spent once due to participating in more transactions, but I don't know how you'd model that.) If you tax spending, you incentivize hoarding ca…

Is not spending money such a bad thing? If your entire economy is propped up by increasing levels of spending, isn't that a serious problem that could explode? Even if you tax sales and incentivize saving, people will still spend money. They obviously need to purchase basic goods, and people will still want luxuries. So, will people save more? Probably. Will they stop spending and throw the economy into a downward de…

If an economy is propped up by personal debt, things can (and have) exploded, yes.

But when not fueled by personal debt, you generally want faster spending, so that potential productive capacity gets used instead of left sitting for lack of demand.

Taxes: You definitely want to reduce loopholes as much as possible, and a sufficiently generous basic income would reduce the need for a lot of tax breaks, yes.

It is observed, however, that the very wealthy spend proportionally less on goods and services; most of their income gets reinvested. Good for them, but it leads to a positive feedback loop.

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a relevant reply I posted to someone else: ----- I'm guessing his point was that we're so accustomed to relatively comfortable living (especially here on HN), that we take valuable things for granted. That leads to a sense of entitlement and confusion. We don't see how valuable the things we have are, so we end up thinking they should be "free", without realizing that nothing of value is actually free, because…

>Suppose Service X costs you $500 per month to produce. If you keep giving it away for free, you're incurring a loss of $500 per month. That is not sustainable. >In a similar fashion, running the Nanny-Fairy-Machinery and producing things with it would definitely cost something, and that's why giving the output away for free wouldn't be sustainable. It's a Marxism-tinged pipe dream. The reason any of this is being di…

> Eventually we get to employ robots to do hard labor better than any human can for longer periods of time until we're paying fractions of a penny per hour in 'wages', initial cost and maintenance included. The ability to do this just wrecks any intuition we have about what it costs to produce things.

Sure, that may well happen. But "Bucky" wasn't talking about the distant future. He was saying that people shouldn't have to work anymore - in today's world - and that's just complete nonsense.

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#215
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I support the idea of a basic income, but only if it is a replacement for the system of piecemeal welfare programs and tax-breaks that we currently have. The entire system could get so much simpler than it currently is. You get your basic income check for X dollars a month. If you work a job, run a business, whatever, in addition to that, you get taxed Y% on your earnings, excluding the basic income amount. No deduct…

I'd suggest replacing an income tax with a sales tax though. One 'punishes' earning, the other 'punishes' spending. Additionally you simplify enforcement by narrowing the collection points considerably. Talk about simple, you don't ever files taxes as an individual. That mixed with basic income is a good plan from my non-economist POV. I've sure someone far smarter that I can explain why I'm amazingly naïve.

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Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, we should all be able to get whatever we need because for the first time in history, we can . If individuals would like to pursue even more (ie the things they want ), they should be free to do so, so long as those wants don't occlude the afore stated needs of others. The interesting thing is that we (humanity) could now actually do this if we wanted to. In the past, the laws of physics (and our lack of knowledge…

Here's a relevant reply I posted to someone else: ----- I'm guessing his point was that we're so accustomed to relatively comfortable living (especially here on HN), that we take valuable things for granted. That leads to a sense of entitlement and confusion. We don't see how valuable the things we have are, so we end up thinking they should be "free", without realizing that nothing of value is actually free, because…

[deleted]

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#217
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You completely miss the point of the quoted passage. You should read it again.

No, I get it, I wish it was true. I also like to dream of a world where each person/family has their own group of robots that do the basic hard work for them, leaving them to pursue creativity, research and development of new things, explore the unexplored. But the reality is that people are selfish and don't really want to see others succeed. They spend more money on luxury cars, houses and technology that benefits…

You still completely miss the point of the passage.

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny the people championing 'incentives for work', thereby turning 'redistribution of wealth' into some kind of mortal sin, simultaneously brand inheritance (redistribution of wealth by bloodright/nepotism) as a 'death tax' and act as if it's the worst thing ever. I'd be a lot more inclined to be a bigger proponent for incentive based economies if we all started on a level playing field with equal opportunity.…

> It's funny the people championing 'incentives for work', thereby turning 'redistribution of wealth' into some kind of mortal sin, simultaneously brand inheritance (redistribution of wealth by bloodright/nepotism) as a 'death tax' and act as if it's the worst thing ever. I think you're conflating two ideas. Redistribution of wealth, in my understanding, means taking from Peter to pay Paul regardless of what Paul did…

> If the millionaires wish to remain millionaires, the money cannot be idle. It has to be invested in value producing activities that generate a return.

So what? Investing is not giving. Investing may generate wealth, but if there's no redistribution, the rich will get richer and the poor will stay poor.

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's not how it actually works; price is only bounded by the value is brings, not proportional to it Price can be whatever the hell someone feels like asking for something, which already invalidates your claim. I can ask for $500k for a bucket of shit, but you probably wouldn't be willing to pay it. But there's a set price already, staring you in the face, making your claim look silly. Now what you might be getti…

Direct quote from your post: "things can't just be handed out for free" Strawman?

You're not being intellectually honest here, but I suspect you knew that already.

Re: Why do people waste so much time at work?

#220
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, anyone is allowed to hold such opinions. There is no right or wrong. The point is that opinions should be based on critical thought and then articulated in a way that reflects this. Take Marc Andreessen for example. Many of his views are very different to mine but he articulates them well and can back them up by showing his thought patterns. I respect, listen to and learn from him because of this even though I…

That's definitely not the message you send when you start interrogating someone about their background like that.

All I was doing was pointing out that his life experiences are nothing but a fantasy to all but less than 1% of the world's population. I have never met someone who has no choice but to work in a whatever job they can find have such skewed views so your subsistence farmer proposition is highly if not completely improbable.

Sillygoose was born with more economic purchasing power than most people will ever achieve in their whole lifetime no matter how hard they work.

If sillygoose wants to be taken seriously he should first of all deal with the core premise of what we are talking about rather than make up something that he can then argue against even though it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. When he says "We should all just get whatever we want, because we deserve it!" he has made up a premise that no one else suggested to discredit a perfectly viable suggestion (UBI). That adds nothing to the conversation and deserves to be called out.

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