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Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

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Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#211

Post by hoopd »

Karunamon wrote: post #203
serge2k wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should he apologize for beliefs he had and still has? Why should he be expected to justify his political and/or religious beliefs to anyone? Why should he be expected to do that AFTER he resigned? Ridiculous.

Because his beliefs are backward and actively harmful. Because it's not his beliefs that people are upset at him for, it's his actions. Because this goes well beyond Mozilla.

You know what else goes beyond Mozilla? The work they do, the open internet they've spent over 15 years fighting for. The problem in this case is the LGBT community apparently feels like the most special of the snowflakes with the most important problems. Be honest, forcing Eich out didn't do anything for the LGBT community outside of a hollow victory and a blatant showing of power to intimidate its enemies.

Solidarity used to mean that you look at the bigger picture and don't torpedo groups who are on the same side as you over personal feelings. For 16 years Eich fulfilled his own and his employees' contracts. For 16 years he was completely in line with Mozilla's inclusivity policy. For 16 years he fought for one of the most important social causes and he had that taken away from him because he felt that in supporting the personal beliefs of others he deserved personal beliefs of his own. Not only that, those of us who care about what he fought for had him taken away from us and I am yet to hear one good reason why.

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#212

Post by hoopd »

Karunamon wrote: post #201
notsony wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop posting your nonsense that Brendan Eich voluntarily resigned. Everybody knows that he was forced out and to pretend otherwise is insulting to anybody reading.

There are no facts to support your conclusion.

Eich was actively coerced into leaving under threat of boycotts and continued disruption of his business by the "social justice" community.

You don't get to hold a witch-hunt and then shrug your shoulders when the witch you were hunting fled town.

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#213

Post by byuu »

hoopd wrote: post #212
Karunamon wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no facts to support your conclusion.

Eich was actively coerced into leaving under threat of boycotts and continued disruption of his business by the "social justice" community. You don't get to hold a witch-hunt and then shrug your shoulders when the witch you were hunting fled town.

Yes, that's how free speech works.

But Eich did not have to resign. The board never even so much as asked him to step down. He chose to step down because he realized how toxic he was to his company's reputation as CEO.

The owner of Chik-Fil-A has taken a lot of flack too for his hateful views, but he sticks around anyway. And as a result, I don't eat there. Eich could have done the same if he wanted, and I would have just not used Firefox at all anymore. And now if you don't want to use Firefox because he chose to resign, then don't. That's your right. If you want to complain about others who protested his promotion, do so. That's your right. But don't claim he was fired when he clearly wasn't. Mozilla's own press release states very clearly that it was voluntary.

The tech community tends to be more progressive than fast food consumers, so the pushback was a bit louder. But Eich had plenty of bigots on his side of this, too. After all, roughly 45% of the country still believes gay people are not deserving of equal treatment under the law.

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#214

Post by byuu »

serge2k wrote: post #184
byuu wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell me again how Eich's employer made it a hostile working environment for him, please? Given that he had no boss (being the CEO and all), we can only assume you mean the board members. Please point out to me a single board member who was in any way hostile toward him. Even the two board members that resigned said it had nothing to do with Eich.

His employer is Mozilla. The conditions were such that staying on as CEO was not an option for him.

> The conditions were such that staying on as CEO was not an option for him.

Why not? Plenty of companies have absolutely reviled CEOs, yet they stick around anyway.

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#215

Post by jarrettc »

serge2k wrote: post #187
jarrettc wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or does it truly rely on blackbox obfuscation? The client ultimately has to decrypt the data somehow. So the key is there on the client. I take it obfuscation is the only thing standing between the user and that key. Am I correct about that? Which makes me wonder: How much security does HTML5 DRM really provide? Security through obscurity is a very weak defense, and one that is almost invariable defeated sooner or…

This isn't security through obscurity, unless the DRM implementation being a secret actually does provide security. I doubt it does, beyond the fact that an audit of the source could probably find a load of security issues. Of course an audit of OpenSSL would do the same.

> This isn't security through obscurity

I don't necessarily disagree. But how, other than through obscurity, does HTML5 DRM inhibit copying, given that the client possesses the decryption key? (Let's assume the would-be attackers aren't dissuaded by any laws that might apply.)

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#216

Post by Sir_Substance »

ticviking wrote: post #209
Sir_Substance wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>DRM cannot and will not be the sole factor in determining what is worth buying. Of course it can, that's at your sole discretion. If it will not be, that's a personal decision, but game of thrones is not oxygen, it's a TV show. You could always take up hiking, if nothing else.

Even if I make it a hard requirement, it cannot be the only factor. I choose to place DRM-free below "Will I enjoy it" and "Do I really want store a physical copy" in how I rank things. It's clear you advocate a different set of priorities. That's fine, but pretending that differing priorities are the same as a lack of self-control is dismissive, and annoying. Particularly when you seem to advocate a complete boycott…

>That's fine, but pretending that differing priorities are the same as a lack of self-control is dismissive, and annoying.

It is the same. You know that DRM is not a good thing. Your tolerance towards it is obviously better than mine (or you haven't yet invested and been bitten), but I have yet to meet anyone other than content company execs who says DRM is an objectively good thing.

If even 1 in 10 customers said "If a piece of content contains DRM, I will not buy it unless it is on sale", there would be no DRM. You don't even have to refuse to buy it, you just have to consider it defective goods with the associated drop in value that implies.

You're one of the vast majority who cannot, or will not, resist the urge to buy, buy, buy, even when you know that a little patience would kill a system that is actively hostile to you, and your justification is that you rank "would I enjoy it?" over "is buying it actively pushing an agenda that will harm me?" on importance.

You're a junkie, and like most junkies your habit is harming not just yourself but everyone around you, and only the dealer is better off.

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#217

Post by xirdstl »

Karunamon wrote: post #107
xirdstl wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which mission statement is that? I thought their mission was specific to the Internet and open source software.

"Mission statement" was incorrect. Please mentally replace that phrase with "community guidelines and company history".

After reading the community participation guidelines, I'm not seeing it either.

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/governance/policies/part...

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#218

Post by hoopd »

byuu wrote: post #213
hoopd wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eich was actively coerced into leaving under threat of boycotts and continued disruption of his business by the "social justice" community. You don't get to hold a witch-hunt and then shrug your shoulders when the witch you were hunting fled town.

Yes, that's how free speech works. But Eich did not have to resign. The board never even so much as asked him to step down. He chose to step down because he realized how toxic he was to his company's reputation as CEO. The owner of Chik-Fil-A has taken a lot of flack too for his hateful views, but he sticks around anyway. And as a result, I don't eat there. Eich could have done the same if he wanted, and I would have…

I never said he was fired, I said he was coerced. It's one of several subtleties that are apparently lost on some.

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#219

Post by byuu »

hoopd wrote: post #218
byuu wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's how free speech works. But Eich did not have to resign. The board never even so much as asked him to step down. He chose to step down because he realized how toxic he was to his company's reputation as CEO. The owner of Chik-Fil-A has taken a lot of flack too for his hateful views, but he sticks around anyway. And as a result, I don't eat there. Eich could have done the same if he wanted, and I would have…

I never said he was fired, I said he was coerced. It's one of several subtleties that are apparently lost on some.

Maybe you didn't; I also wasn't directly referring to you alone.

I don't know what you want, some kind of world where people are forced to be tolerant of intolerance?

Regardless of which side you are on, or which side the public was clamoring for, it's basic free speech going on here. People can say whatever they want. And Eich could have done whatever he wanted in response.

Re: Mozilla Launches a New Firefox Version Without DRM Support

#220

Post by hashmymustache »

jmspring wrote: post #59
hashmymustache wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Silverlight is needed just to add attachments to Outlook in the browser. I don't understand why there isn't a 64-bit version for chrome on mac.

Not true. Chrome does not support NPAPI and about:plugins does not show Silverlight installed. Sent an email to myself (at another address) just now with an attachment using Chrome from outlook.com. Did the same on the outlook web access client for an exchange server. Silverlight not needed. Not sure where you get your information. edit - specify that email is between different addresses.

I don't know what to tell you. My school uses an exchange server and I can't add attachments to emails on the online portal unless I use the old lite version on Chrome whereas I can on other browsers.
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