1.5 Million Missing Black Men • Hacker News Board

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#211

Post by dragonwriter » Mon, Apr 20, 2015, 9:41 PM UTC

mwerd wrote: post #207

pyrocat wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Writing congress, writing your rep, fighting for police and justice reform, donating to the southern poverty law center http://www.splcenter.org/ and the ACLU.

I don't think the SPLC is really in the same league as the ACLU. SPLC is entirely politically motivated. The SPLC is famous for their "hate group" list. The problem is, a hate group is whatever the SPLC says it is. Their criteria are quite loose and their application of that criteria is quite loose as well. You won't find eco-terror and animal rights groups on the SPLC hate group list because it doesn't align with SP…

> I don't think the SPLC is really in the same league as the ACLU. SPLC is entirely politically motivated.

The ACLU and SPLC are both "entirely politically motivated", being non-profit groups founded to address political issues.

The issues each is focused on, of course, are different from the other.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#212

Post by fweespeech » Mon, Apr 20, 2015, 9:43 PM UTC

LLWM wrote: post #161

fweespeech wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese engage in cyber-espionage operations against their "peaceful" trading partners, rattle sabers over Taiwan and various islands, and so forth. http://articles.latimes.com/2014/jan/10/opinion/la-oe-schmit... They used to talk about a "Peaceful Rise" and had for a very long time. They stopped.

>the Chinese engage in cyber-espionage operations against their "peaceful" trading partners Thankfully, the US and other "good" countries are above such things.

I never said that.

I'm just stating the trend is the opposite of the comment I replied to.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#213

Post by fweespeech » Mon, Apr 20, 2015, 9:44 PM UTC

Taniwha wrote: post #154

fweespeech wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese engage in cyber-espionage operations against their "peaceful" trading partners, rattle sabers over Taiwan and various islands, and so forth. http://articles.latimes.com/2014/jan/10/opinion/la-oe-schmit... They used to talk about a "Peaceful Rise" and had for a very long time. They stopped.

China isn't the only country engaging in cyber-espionage operations against their "peaceful" trading partners https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/04/18/new-zealand-ch...

Once again, I never said they were the "only" country. Merely that the trend was in favor increase, not decrease.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#214

Post by chaostheory » Mon, Apr 20, 2015, 9:44 PM UTC

chrischen wrote: post #109

chaostheory wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't find the study to cite, but if I remember correctly an old study found that while most males of all ethnicities are open to relationships with females of different ethnicities given attractive qualities are sufficient (I could be wrong but only physical attraction was measured in this study); they found that most females tend to only go for males within their own ethnic group. The exception was Asian women wi…

In Asian culture Asian woman always have a strong preference for other Asians (this is of course generalizing across the different Asian cultures), especially from the same Asian race. But there's a strong fetishizing of Asian women by certain non-Asian men so there's a disproportionate amount of Asian-women-chasing by white men that gets misconstrued as preference by Asian women. If everyone preferred blue M&Ms, you…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage_in_the_Uni...

"Asian Americans of both genders who are U.S.-raised are much more likely to be married to Whites than their non-U.S.-raised counterparts."

I found a summary of the study: http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_dismal_science/20...

"Two wrinkles on this: We found no evidence of the stereotype of a white male preference for East Asian women. However, we also found that East Asian women did not discriminate against white men (only against black and Hispanic men). As a result, the white man-Asian woman pairing was the most common form of interracial dating—but because of the women's neutrality, not the men's pronounced preference."

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#215

Post by notnickwolf » Mon, Apr 20, 2015, 9:47 PM UTC

dataker wrote: post #182

chrischen wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Asian culture Asian woman always have a strong preference for other Asians (this is of course generalizing across the different Asian cultures), especially from the same Asian race. But there's a strong fetishizing of Asian women by certain non-Asian men so there's a disproportionate amount of Asian-women-chasing by white men that gets misconstrued as preference by Asian women. If everyone preferred blue M&Ms, you…

>The Asian women fetish is quite unique in that there's really nothing else like it for women of another race present in American culture I wouldn't say it's a fetish for Asian girls(physical traits and sexuality). What attracts many white males is the fact many Asian women are usually more mature, intelligent and feminine than others.

>What attracts many white males is the fact many Asian women are usually more mature, intelligent and feminine than others.

a few too many generalizations there ;)

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#216

Post by rokhayakebe » Mon, Apr 20, 2015, 9:50 PM UTC

javert wrote: post #108

kaa2102 wrote: post #20

I'm a Black Man. Growing up there was a realization that being alive and out of trouble over the age of 21 was an accomplishment. This would extend to middle class. Due to a history of American apartheid, there were often just a few degrees of separation between middle class and working/poor class kin.

In the US we had segregation, not apartheid. There is a difference. As a white man living in the South, we still have segregation in practice. I rarely had interaction with blacks because they did different things and took different classes at school. We all went to the same schools---just didn't have the same classes or have the same social circles. Not much shared in the way of culture. I have had some black friend…

Hi Javert, To fix something implies it does not work properly. When you say there is nothing white people can do to fix this, what is this broken "this" needing to be fixed?

Edit: By the way I upvoted even though I think your line of thinking is incorrect, and that it intentionally contributes to the racial problem we face here.

Edit2: I meant "un"intentionally. Sorry.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#217

Post by haberman » Mon, Apr 20, 2015, 9:52 PM UTC

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #163

haberman wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It drives me crazy how many people see a problem like this and are determined to conclude that that problem has only one cause. So one side decides that the (only) cause is that black people wantonly decide to choose a life of crime when they could just as easily have been upstanding members of society. Ergo, it is all black peoples' fault. And the other side decides that the (only) cause is that the criminal justice…

On the one hand you can argue there are "systemic" forces which are apparently unquantifiable driving blacks to elevated rates of criminality even after controlling for socio-economic factors. Presumably large, racially discriminatory social programs and cultural programming such as have been tried for the last 40 years are called for to remedy the problem. On the other hand you can take at face value the reams of da…

> Presumably large, racially discriminatory social programs and cultural programming such as have been tried for the last 40 years are called for to remedy the problem.

There are plenty of obvious things that need fixing, even if you don't believe at all in affirmative action-like programs:

1. Clear conflicts of interest in the criminal justice system, like regular prosecutors being responsible for bringing charges against police, with whom they have close professional and often personal relationships.

2. The unjustifiable war on drugs, which disproportionately affects black communities.

3. Bad behavior by police officers, which likewise disproportionately affects black communities. This is pretty hard to measure because the offenders are the same people who are counting the stats. But we frequently get to see it in shocking display, like when a police officer is caught on video shooting a man who is running away and then planting evidence on him.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#218

Post by powertower » Mon, Apr 20, 2015, 9:54 PM UTC

pyrocat wrote: post #168

javert wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US we had segregation, not apartheid. There is a difference. As a white man living in the South, we still have segregation in practice. I rarely had interaction with blacks because they did different things and took different classes at school. We all went to the same schools---just didn't have the same classes or have the same social circles. Not much shared in the way of culture. I have had some black friend…

> There is nothing white people can do to fix this. Well, except confronting our own biases, encouraging diverse hiring practices, confronting both overt and covert racism when we see it, educating ourselves on racial privilege, fighting racial profiling and sentencing in our justice system, and just in general fighting for racial equality.

> encouraging diverse hiring practices, confronting both overt and covert racism when we see it, educating ourselves on racial privilege, fighting racial profiling and sentencing in our justice system, and just in general fighting for racial equality

It's odd that in the last 40 years of policy where these things where all mandated, promoted, and force, it only made things worse - for everyone (ex: dumbing down the education system to the lowest common denominator, hiring based on race rather than merit, breaking up the black family structure, seeing racism under every rock and corner to excuse bad behavior, promoting said bad behavior as either "authentic" or as the natural result of "white racism", etc).

Maybe, just maybe, your personal bias of viewing blacks as some type of helpless children that have to be taken care of - is the problem, and not the solution.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#219

Post by juliangregorian » Mon, Apr 20, 2015, 9:58 PM UTC

foldr wrote: post #166

dmix wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the 18 countries considered part of the middle east have outputted their share of young men - especially if you rank the countries by population. And a significant percentage of Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan and Pakistan were foreign fighters from middle eastern countries not central asia, particularly the leading figures. I believe most people on HN are aware extremists represent a small percentage of the total po…

That's missing the point. The question is what percentage of the countries in the Middle East are producing significant numbers of "jihdists".

I guess you don't want it to be the case, but the answer really is "most of them". Exceptions would be Israel (if you consider Palestine separately), UAE, Kuwait.

Re: 1.5 Million Missing Black Men

#220

Post by dmix » Mon, Apr 20, 2015, 9:58 PM UTC

pyrocat wrote: post #168

javert wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US we had segregation, not apartheid. There is a difference. As a white man living in the South, we still have segregation in practice. I rarely had interaction with blacks because they did different things and took different classes at school. We all went to the same schools---just didn't have the same classes or have the same social circles. Not much shared in the way of culture. I have had some black friend…

> There is nothing white people can do to fix this. Well, except confronting our own biases, encouraging diverse hiring practices, confronting both overt and covert racism when we see it, educating ourselves on racial privilege, fighting racial profiling and sentencing in our justice system, and just in general fighting for racial equality.

I'm confident the younger generations are much more sensible towards most all of those points. But the most crucial IMO is fixing the justice system which is run by much older generations (even more so than politics) so unfortunately it will be a long time until that catches up.