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How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

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Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#211

Post by mc32 »

DanBC wrote: post #197
jasonwocky wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How in the world do you know that the friendliness is fake?

Because the alternative - that people actually behave like that in their real life outside work - is not supported by my interactions with people outside the work environment. Everyone has a level of friendliness. You step inside a restaurant and it gets ramped up dramatically. Some US places feel like the Disney store which has almost oppressive levels of forced-friendliness. (Where -employees- "cast members" are in…

I think it depends on how you see and interpret the friendliness. In some cultures it's not so much faking it as it is fulfilling a (n expected) role. So it is actually a sincere execution of a role and not fake --on the other hand outside this role their personality can be quite different.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#212

Post by jack-r-abbit »

mikeash wrote: post #105
jack-r-abbit wrote: post #55

There is a lot of talk about how people who get tips generally get a very low wage to start and if they don't get good tips they make a lot less. The federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour (effective July 24, 2009).[1] Furthermore, the federal government requires a wage of at least $2.13 per hour be paid to employees that receive at least $30 per month in tips. If wages and tips do not equal the federal minimum wage…

The fact that servers are guaranteed minimum wage does not change "they live off tips" one bit. $7.25 isn't enough to reasonably live on. Like it or not, you're paying their rent with your tips. That doesn't mean you're obligated, but it does mean you have a strong influence over their financial well-being, even with minimum wage guarantees.

I did acknowledge that the minimum wage sucks. But it sucks the same for all minimum wage jobs... the ones that don't even have the chance at getting tips. How much it costs to live is a much broader topic than this and should include all jobs that get low wages. I think tips fall into the same rough category as bonuses and commissions. People who get bonuses have to accept that they are not guaranteed. If you take a job expecting a bonus and you don't get it then you expected too much. You still get your guaranteed salary. Same with commission jobs. They usually have a base salary and then commissions are paid on top of that based on sales or what ever the metric is for that job. But if you don't perform very well one month and commissions are down... well... better luck next month. Bottom line, don't go in expecting the highest possible outcome. Expect the lowest. If you can't live off that then you take a risk taking the job. If you do end up higher than lowest possible outcome then your risk paid off.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#213

Post by dalore »

pmoriarty wrote: post #136
parennoob wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I come from a culture where tipping implies "reward for good service". But in the US, I always feel that if I tip less than the expected 20%, practically I may be cutting into someone's wages. If they demand the difference, they may end up getting fired by their boss. Does anyone know if these workers are that helpless in practice? Or can they make a single call and get the restaurant owner in trouble if he/she…

It's even worse in Europe, where a "mandatory tip" is already included in your bill by the time you get it. The service in Europe tends to be of a much lower quality than in the US as well. In general, the US is a consumer paradise compared to Europe. In the US, it's better to be a consumer than an employee. In Europe it's the opposite.

That's why it's all gone to pot. You don't realise that employees are consumers. You give them more money they spend more.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#214

Post by dalore »

dantheman wrote: post #161
ma2rten wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's even worse in Europe, where a "mandatory tip" is already included in your bill by the time you get it. There is no "mandatory tip" in Europe. It's actually very simple: you pay for a service, the business pays it's employees. How much the employees get payed is not your concern as a customer. You can tip if you received excellent service, but that is totally optional as it should be. In general, the US is a cons…

Europe is not consumer friendly at all. Service is terrible, many places only accept cash, more accept debit cards, most don't accept credit cards. Store hours are terrible.

Perhaps in the country. Europe is a big place. Places I go in Paris, Stockholm, London, Amsterdam usually accept cards.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#215

Post by rifung »

jmccree wrote: post #181
rifung wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you define what it "actually" is? The 10,15,20% is still what I hear. Perhaps it differs based off where you live in the US? I've lived in CA (both northern and southern) and the norm is generally accepted to be 15%.

I would say 18% is the standard tip as that is what most restaurants (in GA at least) will charge as "automatic gratuity" for parties of 6 or more. The math on 20% is easier so a lot of people default to 20%

I always thought that 18% is standard for 6+ parties because 6+ parties are much harder to deal with and so require a higher tip. It seems a little silly that they would require a "normal" tip

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#216

Post by goatforce5 »

acjohnson55 wrote: post #74
jack-r-abbit wrote: post #55

There is a lot of talk about how people who get tips generally get a very low wage to start and if they don't get good tips they make a lot less. The federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour (effective July 24, 2009).[1] Furthermore, the federal government requires a wage of at least $2.13 per hour be paid to employees that receive at least $30 per month in tips. If wages and tips do not equal the federal minimum wage…

I'm all for changing the absurd system where tipping is practically required for one where a reasonable wage is paid and pre-factored into the cost of the service. But if we all just stopped tipping suddenly, it's the most vulnerable people who bear the brunt until the system adjusts. I think that's pretty morally suspect.

There's a cafe here in Toronto that adjoins a community centre that runs social programs, etc., and they have a tip jar next to the register. There's a sign that says something like "Our staff a paid a fair living wage. Any donations for the community centre are welcomed." or something.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#217

Post by mikeash »

jack-r-abbit wrote: post #212
mikeash wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that servers are guaranteed minimum wage does not change "they live off tips" one bit. $7.25 isn't enough to reasonably live on. Like it or not, you're paying their rent with your tips. That doesn't mean you're obligated, but it does mean you have a strong influence over their financial well-being, even with minimum wage guarantees.

I did acknowledge that the minimum wage sucks. But it sucks the same for all minimum wage jobs... the ones that don't even have the chance at getting tips. How much it costs to live is a much broader topic than this and should include all jobs that get low wages. I think tips fall into the same rough category as bonuses and commissions. People who get bonuses have to accept that they are not guaranteed. If you take a…

Bonuses and commissions can be really different. Sometimes they're just supplemental. Sometimes they're the real pay, and the salary is just a nominal token effort. For many jobs, expecting the lowest isn't realistic. You wouldn't take that job if you expected the lowest, because the lowest is unacceptably low and almost never actually happens.

Waiters get tipped. That's the expectation and the reality. Anyone who takes a waiter job not expecting to be tipped is deluded (assuming they don't work for one of the few places that ban it).

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#218

Post by nucleardog »

vosper wrote: post #201
jmccree wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really not that most restaurants wouldn't make up the wages to the minimum. The minimum wage in most US states is not for most people would call a "living wage, it's around $15k/yr. It's not uncommon in a major city for waiters to be able to pull in $30-60k/year. The thing is that in many place tips are paid out in cash at the end of their shift, so if you don't tip you're literally taking money out of their poc…

Except that you're not "literally taking money out of their pocket for that day" - that would imply that the money was rightfully theirs, and that you've essentially stolen it from them by not tipping. That's not how tipping works - it's the customers money, given at their discretion. There's a strong sense of obligation felt by most people, but it is ultimately optional.

Most places require the wait staff to tip out the kitchen a percent of their sales at the end of the shift to the tune of 2-5%.

If you don't tip then you are actually actually taking money out of their pocket since they're now going to have to cover your 2-5% tip to the kitchen out of their own, rightfully earned, money.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#219

Post by jasonwocky »

mc32 wrote: post #211
DanBC wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the alternative - that people actually behave like that in their real life outside work - is not supported by my interactions with people outside the work environment. Everyone has a level of friendliness. You step inside a restaurant and it gets ramped up dramatically. Some US places feel like the Disney store which has almost oppressive levels of forced-friendliness. (Where -employees- "cast members" are in…

I think it depends on how you see and interpret the friendliness. In some cultures it's not so much faking it as it is fulfilling a (n expected) role. So it is actually a sincere execution of a role and not fake --on the other hand outside this role their personality can be quite different.

Absolutely. I have a certain level of friendliness to random strangers. But customers of any kind? I sincerely care about their experience of dealing with me and my company. So if I come off as more friendly when dealing with them, I'd say that's genuine.

Re: How Software in Half of NYC Cabs Generates $5.2M a Year in Extra Tips

#220

Post by jack-r-abbit »

nucleardog wrote: post #218
vosper wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that you're not "literally taking money out of their pocket for that day" - that would imply that the money was rightfully theirs, and that you've essentially stolen it from them by not tipping. That's not how tipping works - it's the customers money, given at their discretion. There's a strong sense of obligation felt by most people, but it is ultimately optional.

Most places require the wait staff to tip out the kitchen a percent of their sales at the end of the shift to the tune of 2-5%. If you don't tip then you are actually actually taking money out of their pocket since they're now going to have to cover your 2-5% tip to the kitchen out of their own, rightfully earned, money.

That is illegal. Google it. A group of tipped employees (ie. servers and bartenders) may pool tips. But it is illegal to force them to include non-tipped employees (ie cooks, dishwashers, etc) in the pool. Servers may tip the cooks, etc themselves if they want. But they can't be required to.
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