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Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

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Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#211

Post by Florin_Andrei »

termain wrote: post #82
Florin_Andrei wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cuba is an indescribably weird place where almost everybody is (on paper anyways) poor, yet education, health care and the arts flourish. Violent crime is virtually unheard of I grew up in the Eastern Bloc, I was in college when the revolutions happened. Now I live in the US. When I describe the life under communists to people who grew up here, I mention, of course, the lack of political freedom, the demagoguery, e…

Unemployment is such a funny thing. In a free market economy, unemployment is a necessity but seems to be treated as a universal evil.

> In a free market economy, unemployment is a necessity

Perhaps a "necessity" in the sense that it's a necessary outcome of a system designed like that.

E.g., you build an engine according to the principles of thermodynamics in this universe, a necessary outcome is wasted heat. The engine would not work if you prohibited the waste; or it would become something else entirely (not a Carnot machine anymore, or whatever).

The trick is to figure out a system where the necessary outcomes are not very undesirable. Pretty hard to do that with the entire human society.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#212

Post by WalterBright »

WildUtah wrote: post #181
xyahoo wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand: - average life expectancy in Cuba is almost the same as the USA (and higher than Mexico, Belize, Bahamas, Brazil, etc.). - literacy rate in Cuba is higher than that in the USA - Physicians per 10,000 people: Cuba has 67, USA has 24 In the Ebola crisis, Cuba has been leading from the front.

Physicians per capita figures are misleading. The US figure reflects very long careers; late retirements; investment in large teams of trauma specialists due to high war, car crash, and gunshot wound rates; a high percentage of women physicians working part time; and a high concentration of expensive specialists with no documentation that they improve outcomes and paid for by large federal government subsidies. The a…

The last vaccinations I received were from the pharmacist at the drugstore.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#213

Post by jpatokal »

The line about opening an embassy in Cuba as soon as possible is a bit funny, since the US has long had an embassy in all but name: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Interests_Sectio...

And while that's technically only a "section" of the Swiss embassy, a glance at a photo of the place makes it pretty clear that there's a bit more going on.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#214

Post by calbear81 »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #204
calbear81 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was pointing out a difference between the reasons for poverty (mental illness, etc.) between the homeless and people who live in poverty in third world countries (political/socio-economic oppression, etc.). I don't believe in criminalizing homelessness as it's a public health issue but I would contest the opinion that it poorly hides it. Look at any thread about New Yorkers complaining about SF and count how many t…

I thought that was your intention. I'm interested to here your response to my second point.

I agree with you that criminalization doesn't solve any real problems, it just sweeps them under the rug. Short of wide public support and funding for an expansion of social services, housing, and in some cases institutionalization, I don't expect any solution to the problem anytime soon.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#215

Post by jpatokal »

sremani wrote: post #19
joezydeco wrote: post #17

The timing seems really clever here. The USA and OPEC flood the market with oil (literally), crashing prices and sending the Ruble into a spiral. Just as Cuba starts to worry about Russian support going forward, the USA swoops in to provide some economic bracing.

I think this move effects Venezuela more than Russia. It is Venezuela that provides cheaper oil cuba in return for many services like healthcare etc. Now that oil is already cheap, Cuba does not need for patronage of Venezuela.

You may have the causality the wrong way around here here: with Venezuela's oil revenues cratering and what remains of their economy after a decade of Chavismo spiraling rapidly downwards, it's unlikely they can afford to be Cuba's sugar daddy for much longer.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#216

Post by qwerta »

WildUtah wrote: post #181
xyahoo wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand: - average life expectancy in Cuba is almost the same as the USA (and higher than Mexico, Belize, Bahamas, Brazil, etc.). - literacy rate in Cuba is higher than that in the USA - Physicians per 10,000 people: Cuba has 67, USA has 24 In the Ebola crisis, Cuba has been leading from the front.

Physicians per capita figures are misleading. The US figure reflects very long careers; late retirements; investment in large teams of trauma specialists due to high war, car crash, and gunshot wound rates; a high percentage of women physicians working part time; and a high concentration of expensive specialists with no documentation that they improve outcomes and paid for by large federal government subsidies. The a…

Perhaps good idea for startup, medical turism..

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#217

Post by dragonwriter »

pmelendez wrote: post #143
mladenkovacevic wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true as well. I've seen worse conditions in both Costa Rica (a relatively successful country) and El Salvador.

>" I've seen worse conditions in both Costa Rica ... " It depends on your definition of worse. In Cuba there was a general shortage of several basic items (toilet paper, eggs, meat... etc.) were most people (the only exception is the political class) have to face rationing and long lines. As far as I know that is inexistent in Costa Rica.

Inadequate overall wealth to supply basic needs leads to lines and rationing in socialist systems, and just pricing goods out of the reach of non-elites in basically capitalist systems, so the symptoms look a bit difference but the substance is much the same.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#218

Post by mathattack »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #73
mathattack wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you start from such a low base, there is enormous room for growth. The question is what can they export? Cigars? Medical personnel?

> Medical personnel? Cuba actually has an incredible socialized medicine healthcare system, and the US embargo specifically carves out an exception for cancer pharmaceuticals developed and manufactured there. Its not that far fetched that you would see medical tourism take off from Florida with its vast retiree population. If I were in the travel business in Florida, I'd start advertising now to get your name out the…

I was thinking visas for Cuban doctors and nurses to come here too.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#219

Post by dragonwriter »

mudil wrote: post #124
toomuchtodo wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.wired.com/2010/04/cuban-health-lessons/ "Despite a 50-year trade embargo by the United States and a post-Soviet collapse in international support, the impoverished nation has developed a world-class health care system. Average life expectancy is 77.5 years, compared to 78.1 years in the United States, and infant and child mortality rates match or beat our own. There’s one doctor for every 170 people, more…

"There are shortages of medicines, and the best care is reserved for elites." Nice healthcare system!

The US system -- despite being the mist expensive per capita in the world -- has both of those features, too; sure, the rationing method in the USA is different (rather than a formal elite with special access, we have pay-to-recieve and an elite defined by the ability to pay -- but there's still limited supply and the best care going only to the elite.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#220

Post by rgbrenner »

Retric wrote: post #190
rgbrenner wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - Physicians per 10,000 people: Cuba has 67 2nd highest in the world, behind Monaco (70): http://kff.org/global-indicator/physicians/ For comparison: Sweden (38), UK (27), Japan (21), Canada (20) Makes you wonder if that number has any significance at all. Japan has 1/3rd the number of doctors, but the highest life expectancy in the world.

Japan has a lot of welfare fraud which inflates their life expectancy numbers. It also has a fairly low level of income inequality relative to their per capita GDP which helps things. (AKA few poor people.) And to top it off universal healthcare which significantly increases a population’s life expectancy. Edit: Arguably the high food prices reduce obesity which is really important.

You're focusing too much on Japan. Japan was just an example. This number that Cuba excels on has little relation to health. So what is the point that Cuba has this great number? It's just a number.

Canada, which has even fewer physicians, has a life expectancy only 2 years less than Japan.

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