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Uber banned from operating in Indian capital after rape accusation

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Re: Uber banned from operating in Indian capital after rape accusation

#211

Post by patangay »

mike_hearn wrote: post #177
avalaunch wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Knowing that there will be evidence to follow up on after a crime is committed is often enough to deter the crime from being committed.

Why is location that the rape took place relevant? What triggers the investigation is the allegation, not GPS data. Look, I'm not trying to be dense here. But the idea that the crime would not have happened if Uber cars had undisableable GPS doesn't seem totally well thought out. After all, "you switched off your phone GPS between these times with someone in the car" is nearly as damning as "you pulled over into a qu…

No, uber tracks via the drivers GPS (at least in the US and UK). I have ordered Ubers for my family and friends; my phone wasn't heading towards the destination, but I could track where the car was on my phone. I find this a useful safety feature to make sure my family gets home.

Re: Uber banned from operating in Indian capital after rape accusation

#212

Post by pkaye »

dang wrote: post #200
Someone1234 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That wasn't a personal attack. It was a statement of fact based on the obvious misinformation within their post (which was worse pre-edit, by the way). If someone said "the moon is made of cheese" and someone replies "you don't understand what the moon is made of" that isn't a person attack, since it was directed at their argument not their character. If I had called them names, broadly questioned their intelligence,…

It was personal and its presence at the start of your comment was obviously abrasive. For our purposes that counts as a personal attack. It wasn't egregious, but (a) this kind of subtle nastiness toxifies the environment here, and (b) it marred your otherwise fine comment. "It was a statement of fact", if true, is beside the point. Facts are often used as ammunition for gratuitous jabs. Indeed, they make the best suc…

Please no personal attacks.

Re: Uber banned from operating in Indian capital after rape accusation

#213

Post by shk »

RealGeek wrote: post #10

Uber is not being banned just because of this rape incident. Uber did not following Indian laws & Delhi transport regulations, and operated illegally under the radar. Before this incident, Delhi Government was not aware about how Uber operated. This incident prompted Indian authorities to investigate the operations of Uber. Uber's stance is that we are not a taxi company, we are an app company; so we do not need to f…

I know uber is flouting regulatory laws in India but banning the company outright is definitely not the right solution. And again there is the question that how the said ban is going to be imposed. The Union Transport Ministry of India has given a statement saying banning uber doesn't make sense [1] Also, in a developing country like India, with no centralized repository of past records, it's extremely tough to do background checks. [2] It's busy to blame the system, but here the system in my opinion is more at fault than Uber. Clearly, uber provides a net value-add of hailing a taxi over traditional taxi services. Rather than banning them, a better way will be to have a digitized system where past records of a driver can be viewed and making it accessible to all taxi companies. Just strengthening regulations is not enough. There should be clear ways and benefits of operating within the regulatory framework.

[1] http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/Banning-Uber-d... [2] http://fortune.com/2014/12/08/in-defense-of-uber-in-india/

Re: Uber banned from operating in Indian capital after rape accusation

#214

Post by rmc »

fragsworth wrote: post #109
rmc wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can go better than "accusation". Anyone could accuse anyone of anything. But you could set the bar in the middle with "arrested", which is half way between "accusation" and "conviction".

That's not really in the middle. The only difference between "accused" and "arrested" is that the accuser told the police.

Yes the accuser told the police, and the police thought there was suffecient reason to arrest the accused. That's the important difference. Sometimes the police are told, and they interview the accused and don't arrest them. Sometimes they do. The police are (in theory) supposed to have standards for who they arrest.

Re: Uber banned from operating in Indian capital after rape accusation

#215

Post by JoeAltmaier »

anigbrowl wrote: post #176
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh for goodness sake. The point was, as an employer or potential partner, you want someone who will be effective in that role. Whilst being distracted would be a negative, regardless of the reason for that distraction. Not a moral argument; a statistical one as stated - avoid anyone with any chance of distraction is a valid game-theory strategy.

An overly narrow view. A predictably potential rapist who was subsequently convicted would become permanently unavailable and and could bring down a huge liability on an employer. An employee who gives birth (or who becomes a father) is engaging in normal human activity; you treat that the same way you treat any other indisposition like an unexpected health condition, and hedge against it. Really, ask yourself how yo…

Statistically, there are equally-qualified candidates with none of these problems. A moral-free algorithm would surely choose young unmarried technologists over any other kind. I'll repeat: the trouble with discrimination is, it works so well.

Re: Uber banned from operating in Indian capital after rape accusation

#216

Post by snlacks »

atonse wrote: post #175
snlacks wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not say that Uber doesn't have issues to address, I said that the Indian government has underlying issues, and can't scapegoat forever. Not every situation in life has clear sides of "good guys" and "bad guys" or who's "to blame." Cause is a moving bar, and has different value depending what we are talking about causing. Uber causes it's passengers to be in danger by not ensuring the people behind the wheel. In…

I'm not arguing about the scapegoating or anything. I'm just saying that Uber markets itself as "we don't hire those creeps" - but it sounds like they ARE hiring those creeps. So what's the point of using Uber in Delhi when you are as unsafe as you would be in a regular taxicab? What's the value proposition of Uber in that case? Just the convenience of using the app?

I don't like Uber, I do like the idea of competition.

I think the draw is upfront pricing? But I don't know, I've horror stories about that too.

Re: Uber banned from operating in Indian capital after rape accusation

#217

Post by avalaunch »

mike_hearn wrote: post #177
avalaunch wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Knowing that there will be evidence to follow up on after a crime is committed is often enough to deter the crime from being committed.

Why is location that the rape took place relevant? What triggers the investigation is the allegation, not GPS data. Look, I'm not trying to be dense here. But the idea that the crime would not have happened if Uber cars had undisableable GPS doesn't seem totally well thought out. After all, "you switched off your phone GPS between these times with someone in the car" is nearly as damning as "you pulled over into a qu…

I never made the argument "that the crime would not have happened if Uber cars had undisableable GPS". You were the one that claimed that it "would only be useful as evidence to follow up on after an alleged crime took place". I don't know whether it would be useful in that manner. I was simply pointing out that if it is useful in that way then it would act as a deterrent. In other words, I found the combination of the two sentences prior to my comment to be incorrect: that something could be used as follow up to a crime happening without affecting the likelihood of the crime happening. I was not commenting on the specifics.

Re: Uber banned from operating in Indian capital after rape accusation

#218

Post by j45 »

j45 wrote: post #85
RealGeek wrote: post #10

Uber is not being banned just because of this rape incident. Uber did not following Indian laws & Delhi transport regulations, and operated illegally under the radar. Before this incident, Delhi Government was not aware about how Uber operated. This incident prompted Indian authorities to investigate the operations of Uber. Uber's stance is that we are not a taxi company, we are an app company; so we do not need to f…

It's ancillary to the discussion, but I'm not sure of the due diligence which can reliably and certifiably be completed in India. There may be assumptions made from a belief that these things are present.

Rather than down-voting, open to hearing otherwise. Didn't mean to offend, just an understanding of what is possible out there.

Re: Uber banned from operating in Indian capital after rape accusation

#219

Post by known »

snlacks wrote: post #4

So, I'm not a Uber fan, but I get the feeling this is India deflecting a couple of other underlying issues and placing blame. Sooner or later they have to face the issue head on, because scapegoating gets old.

Rape is a hate crime in India http://india.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/16/as-india-responds-...

Re: Uber banned from operating in Indian capital after rape accusation

#220

Post by ignoramous »

jessaustin wrote: post #93
ignoramous wrote: post #49

I've said it elsewhere too [0], and I say it again... There's no doubt that Uber is on a free ride in India. If they can bully their way in the US, and not care about law and regulations there, then they have absolutely nothing to worry about in India. The law enforcement is weak, to say the least. * Uber's customer service is a disgrace. I've tried contacting them 4 times for different issues ranging from bugs in th…

How do you pay Uber in India? Did you make a deposit, or is this on a credit card? I don't know the credit card rules in India, but in USA there's no way I would have ended up paying Uber's self-serving "fine".

Pay using a prepaid wallet now that Reserve Bank of India wants Uber to comply with regulations in place-- which is to essentially use 2-factory auth for every online credit/debit card transaction.

Uber's Akshay wrote a very condescending blog post about it calling 2FA an "antiquated" security measure: http://blog.uber.com/2FA

I don't like the tone of the blog post TBH.

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