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How can an introvert Asian engineer like me make friends?

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Re: How can an introvert Asian engineer like me make friends?

#211
Surprised at all the focus on introversion in the comments. I'm 26 too and have always been social and extroverted - I can totally relate to this post.

These are near-universal struggles. Most people wish they could make more friends with shared interests, even those with a great friend group. (Most friendships are circumstantial and the individuals don't have much more in common than two random people from similar backgrounds.) Most people without families also get lonely on the weekends. Lately I've been trying to get healthy and avoid drinking and it's remarkable how much that's stalled my social and dating lives.

I had a different reaction: that this is an untapped opportunity for potential founders. Meetup is great in theory but for some reason isn't good at friendships. I don't get why in 2014 there is such a discrepancy between % of relationships and % of friendships sourced online. There must be a better way for the internet to introduce people with shared goals and convert them to real-life friends, without sex involved. Also consider how much friction this adds to relocation - how many people avoid moving because "all my friends are here". That's implying that it would be hard to make similar friends in a new city.

I hope the HN crowd starts to see this as a problem that needs solving. Personally, I've always thought that social apps were boring and superfluous - that I wanted to work on "hard" problems instead - but starting to question this assumption.

Re: How can an introvert Asian engineer like me make friends?

#212

Here is a lesson I've learned the long, hard way after 30 years of being a strong introvert: it's not how or where you meet people that counts. It's how you stay in touch. Look around you. Every day, in every situation imaginable, there are hundreds of ways to meet people. There really are. You could strike up a conversation with a stranger on a subway. You could ask for some advice from the girl ahead of you in line…

> If you're a true introvert, your biggest enemy is yourself. This sort of statement sounds suspicious to me. Are you absolutely sure your meaning of introvert isn't idiosyncratic? This is the sort of thing I remember David Hume writing an essay about. If someone wants to be alone, there is absolutely nothing non-genuine about that desire, even if it's unproductive or you yourself think someone should want something…

"This sort of statement sounds suspicious to me. Are you absolutely sure your meaning of introvert isn't idiosyncratic?"

The problem is that there are a number of different ways to categorize an extraversion-introversion spectrum, and on top of that, there are many different connotations of introversion and extraversion. It might help if I clarify which definition I'm referring to. It's not very idiosyncratic; rather, it's the classical definition of introversion as "primarily interested in, or taking pleasure in, solitary activities." Occasionally this is rendered as a locus-of-energy distinction: extraverts derive energy from social situations and "tire" of isolation; introverts derive energy from alone time and "tire" from too much social interaction.

Modern connotations of introversion tend to conflate introversion with shyness or awkwardness. While these traits can be correlated, they are not the same thing as introversion.

"If someone wants to be alone, there is absolutely nothing non-genuine about that desire"

Nor did I say there was. I'm just stating that desire to be alone is often at odds with one's ability to keep friendships active and thriving. It's not wrong to be alone, or to want to be alone. But the introvert needs to be mindful of this desire, particularly to whatever extent it interferes with conflicting goals, such as wanting more friends. In this case, the author specifically stated a desire to make more friends. So I wrote from the presumption of that intent.

I'm not rendering any value judgments about introversion or extraversion here. It's not "wrong" to be introverted, or to derive mental or emotional stimulation and energy from being alone. As I mentioned, I myself am a strong introvert in this respect. I don't think I'm a damaged or flawed individual because I'm introverted. Rather, I'm mindful of the fact that my introversion, if I always give into it, can cause problems for my social life. And so I attempt to moderate it, as I do with any of my strong personality traits.

"Different people also want different things from friendships. So if there are two friends, and one sees hanging out as only the means to establishing a deeper intimate friendship, but hanging out and having fun is the main purpose of the friendship to the other, then that's not such a great friendship."

Sure, but that doesn't change the basic facts of social interaction, such as frequency and proximity. You need to interact on a regular basis with someone to maintain a friendship, regardless of what you enjoy doing in that friendship. It doesn't matter if the friendship is predicated on grabbing beers, having deep, philosophical discussions, building things together, traveling, or having sex. At its most basic level, the friendship depends on N encounters over an X period to remain stable. N and X might differ for different pairings of people, but some number N and some recurring interval X usually exist.

Re: How can an introvert Asian engineer like me make friends?

#213
Every day, do something with someone else. I'm a huge proponent of Meetup.com - I moved across the country to Texas, where I had almost no friends. My wife and I started just heading to meetups, making small talk, shaking hands, etc. The biggest thing is just that you need to keep it constant.

Re: How can an introvert Asian engineer like me make friends?

#215

Making friends is incredibly difficult once one is an adult, so I won't offer advice on that. But you mention that your English is not at conversational level. Therefore any attempt to make friends will be doomed before you evrn start. You need to take English classes.

Wrong language. Not English. Help out a class for your native language. Tutor before/after class anyone who wants to talk in your native language. If the conversation tends toward "lets go get coffee / tea / movie / bar whatever after class" well, that's what happens. "I've got a great idea, how about I take you to dinner and you try to teach me as much English as I'm teaching you?" or if bunch of guys, "Oh you're watching football together on Sunday afternoon, could I come over to work on my English, I'll bring some beer?"

Also if you are asian and start talking in perfect English like George Takei they're going to assume you're perfectly extroverted and an expert on American social cultural norms and behaviors, oh good how nice and stressful if you're introverted. But if you're just good enough to communicate most of the time while clearly putting in some kind of effort, they'll cut you a huge amount of slack, regardless if the actual problem is you're all introverted anxious exhausted. He's not terrified to be talking to a pretty girl, he's just having English troubles, no problem.

Re: How can an introvert Asian engineer like me make friends?

#216
When I start to feel social anxiety, I ask myself, "what is the worst that can happen?" And then I reply to myself, "a secret band of assassins could swear a blood feud against my family." All of that is to underscore the absurdity of fear and anxiety.

What really is the worst thing that can happen? People could not call you back and invite you to the next party. Well, you weren't going to that next party if you didn't make the effort anyway. And if you be yourself and they aren't accepting of you, you don't want to be at that next party with those assholes anyway.

Just remember, you're not going to find "best friends forever" right away. Paradoxically, one of the best things you can do when you find a group of people you like is to find another group of people. If you try to "over optimize" your time with that first group, you could alienate them. It's normal to go a month between seeing certain groups of friends, so if you want to see people more often than that, then you have to find more circles in which to hang out.

Re: How can an introvert Asian engineer like me make friends?

#217
Being introvert doesn't mean you can't talk to people but that you get back your energy when alone. So your issue is being afraid because you're self-centered or, in other words, too conscious of yourself instead of others (ie most people usually don't care about the way you talk, etc). I do the same and have a hard time keeping my friendships.

Stop looking at yourself and go out. Try voluntary work and take your time taking care of others. Or just buy a dog.. just by taking care of the dog, you'll meet people (park, etc). One of the best way I found to start talking is asking advice. Everyone likes to give advice.

Re: How can an introvert Asian engineer like me make friends?

#218

Here is a lesson I've learned the long, hard way after 30 years of being a strong introvert: it's not how or where you meet people that counts. It's how you stay in touch. Look around you. Every day, in every situation imaginable, there are hundreds of ways to meet people. There really are. You could strike up a conversation with a stranger on a subway. You could ask for some advice from the girl ahead of you in line…

> If you're a true introvert, your biggest enemy is yourself. It's your desire to be alone. It's your preference for living by yourself, for quiet moments away from others, for nights spent at home, watching Netflix or playing games. Making friends means making an effort to hang out with them, even when it doesn't seem like the most immediately pleasurable, comfortable, or convenient thing to do at any given moment.

I am highly introverted. This is surprisingly and confusing to even the closest of my friends because I have learnt the art of being incredibly outgoing and a veritable chatterbox when need be. However, it is exhausting as fuck. So I balance it out. I go all out, make plans do things with people. But I make sure I have me time where I shut down and do things on my own. It is always a balance though. Because it is very easy for me to focus on me time and do my own thing. And forget about the fact that friendships have to be taken care.

Re: How can an introvert Asian engineer like me make friends?

#219
post #153

I'd highly recommend doing two things in parallel. 1. Read How to win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. 2. Try to talk to someone new every day. On item 1 - I promise that it's not as lame as the title makes it sound. If you internalize the core advice behind this book it will drastically improve your life and it will make you a better person. On item 2 - don't go overboard with this. There's no need to…

Instead of How to win Friends and Influence People , I would recommend Robert Cialdini's Influence: Science and Practice . Instead of just having advice and heuristics most nerds really interested in the problem can often figure out themselves, it describes a lot of experiments and builds a general model for why certain actions work. I think a lot of tricks can be discovered on one's own (sometimes through chance), a…

Instead of reading anything, I would recommend doing. There are enough people in most places to stand making a few mistakes in trying to make friends.

As a general rule of thumb, make decisions that go towards extending conversation, rather than shutting it down. Whatever is going on, do the thing that leads to the most action, even if it's not in your control, or anyone's control. Embrace chaos.

Re: How can an introvert Asian engineer like me make friends?

#220
1.) the grass is always greener (translation: other people tend to appear happier, more successful, etc... than they actually are; keep this in perspective otherwise you will not be happy with the simple pleasures right in front of you); 2.) meeting new people usually hinges on finding a common interest; since you are self-conscious about your English-speaking skills, perhaps start with a meetup group or association for people who speak your first language (you will probably be more confident in the environment); next, find a meetup group or association for your real favorite interest... http://www.meetup.com/ 3.) I find it easier to talk to other introverts like myself, because I know they are pretty much thinking the same things you and I are thinking, they often don't bullshit as much so you can trust what they are saying much more, and they often value your friendship and are overall better friends.
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