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Gittip, Year Two

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Re: Gittip, Year Two

#211

Post by ryanpardieck »

ta140604 wrote: post #81
tshepang wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have examples of the trolling you talk of?

I believe he was referring to the top two receivers, Shanley [1] and Ashe[2]. These two are a part of the group of very aggressive feminists; there's no official 'group' to speak of (AFAIK), just a network of people supporting each other. Just to give a few names - Alex Gaynor (member of PSF board), Jacob Kaplan-Moss (yep, Django ex-BDFL), Coda Hale (HN/codahale, see his last messages here on HN [3], they're just abo…

First, I think that last tweet is actually pretty funny. What's wrong with a little black humor?

Also, because of the Torvalds mention earlier in this thread, I thought it'd be interesting to compare the people you mention here to him. Almost all of them look quite tame when you compare their behavior to Torvalds's. Kane's online persona does run toward being a jerk, and is probably the only one that could stand toe-to-toe with Torvalds in terms of brashness and hostility.

So why do these "very aggressive" people bother you so much, when Torvalds is generally seen as something of a hero? Are you willing to rate Torvalds's behavior as being just as "toxic" as theirs? The fictional QA report you describe in a later post actually sounds quite a lot like some stuff Torvalds has written. Do you have a similarly dutifully-annotated post in storage that details all of Torvalds's sins? Does his behavior set OSS back in the same way you claim these people set their communities back?

Maybe we should start referring to Torvalds as a "very aggressive programmer" ...

Note: I realize this post relies quite a bit on things I can't know. "ta140604" may very well think Torvalds is just as problematic as the people he discusses here. The point is to add a little context, and give you something to chew on the next time you see a post like this, where "a wild pseudonym appears!" expressly to smear a group of people that question the status quo. Yes, it's entirely likely that these people are all huge jerks. Most of us are jerks. But why are we so concerned with the fact that they, specifically, are jerks, when we don't give a shit about it in most everyone else?

Re: Gittip, Year Two

#212

Post by KuraFire »

iodfgj wrote: post #96

I think gittip had the potential to become something great and yea, sure, you've had a substantial increase in traffic since last year but an increase in traffic does not mean an increase in quality. I've been looking over at gittip for a while now and saw it was doing good things for good open source developers but your homepage shows the problem. The top 2 money recipients are 2 feminists which have never seen a li…

Ashe and Shanley do more for the open source community in an average week than I suspect you've ever done in a year.

Re: Gittip, Year Two

#213

Post by arzugula »

KuraFire wrote: post #212
iodfgj wrote: post #96

I think gittip had the potential to become something great and yea, sure, you've had a substantial increase in traffic since last year but an increase in traffic does not mean an increase in quality. I've been looking over at gittip for a while now and saw it was doing good things for good open source developers but your homepage shows the problem. The top 2 money recipients are 2 feminists which have never seen a li…

Ashe and Shanley do more for the open source community in an average week than I suspect you've ever done in a year.

My web applications run 150% faster now that I know how evil I am for being a white male!

Re: Gittip, Year Two

#214

Post by harrylyme »

harrylyme wrote: post #204
ta140604 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The problem is, they exaggerate and twist the truth, spread hate, unnecessarily antagonizing people, and actively push away those who try to reach out to them trying to do something.

Exactly: people like @shanley and @ashedryden make money by polarizing and then profiting from the resulting flames of their gender argument, and so vigorously resist even talking to those that they accuse and condemn. It's the type of narcissistic intolerance that is rarely seen in such pure form. The logic here is rather straightforward: to a 'stage4' narcissist, their opinions are the functional equivalent of abso…

My advice to GitTip: 'if it's not broke, don't fix it'. You had a great year, so proceed cautiously with any systemic changes, and error on the side of transparency. Keep conversations as open as possible because the real solution to 'Bad' Speech -- is more speech.

The only exception to that rule is personally threatening language, which should not be tolerated at all. And only a coward would resort to that low level of action.

But with that being said lets not construe honest disagreements that are substantiated with reasons -- as a personal attack or a cause to feel 'threatened'.

And as far as funding goes: except for clear cases of fraud, let people decide for themselves where they want their money to go -- and let transparency take care of the rest :)

P.S. They are using flame throwers on twitter about this thread -- when they should be replying here :D (twitter is a better place to polarize with out of context 'headlines')

Re: Gittip, Year Two

#215

Post by j46a1 »

steveklabnik wrote: post #149
tshepang wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have examples of the trolling you talk of?

I only plan on making this single response in this thread. As someone mentioned directly below, you're damn right I'm a staunch feminist. But nobody has 'hijacked' anything: I've known Chad since before Gittip was even a thing, and have been in the top leaders list since when that meant I got less than a dollar. Because that's what happens when you've been using a platform longer than others. Naturally, this extended…

Profitable ... but needs donations? I'm not following.

Re: Gittip, Year Two

#216

Post by pessimizer »

pessimizer wrote: post #77
6cxs2hd6 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As just one example, you could live in Rochester MN. Nice 4 BR house There a dozens of places like this between the two insanely expensive coastal zones of the US. Places where things like housing cost nearly an order of magnitude less. [1]: http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Rochester-MN/26791_rid/...

Are there any black people or sidewalks there? I've been wanting a random change lately and trying to figure out a place to move to get away from Chicago.

Thanks, downvoter, for diminishing my concerns as an oppressed minority:)

Re: Gittip, Year Two

#217

Post by arzugula »

swampangel wrote: post #190
PaulHoule wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty amazed I got at least three downvotes for what I think is a pretty mild observation.

The post that spawned this subthread amounts to "Since gittip's main beneficiaries are women I disagree with, gittip should be shut down". In that context, do you see how your post is stoking the fire? You didn't indicate what you think gittip is for, just that noirin's use of it is inappropriate. You also said she "deprecates her husband", when she lists 2 facts: a) he was arrested b) he is suing her for things she…

> "Since gittip's main beneficiaries are women I disagree with, gittip should be shut down"

You're conflating /women/ with a small group of toxic feminists. There are many women in tech who have distanced themselves from these people.

Re: Gittip, Year Two

#218

Post by AmyStephen »

ta140604 wrote: post #81
tshepang wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have examples of the trolling you talk of?

I believe he was referring to the top two receivers, Shanley [1] and Ashe[2]. These two are a part of the group of very aggressive feminists; there's no official 'group' to speak of (AFAIK), just a network of people supporting each other. Just to give a few names - Alex Gaynor (member of PSF board), Jacob Kaplan-Moss (yep, Django ex-BDFL), Coda Hale (HN/codahale, see his last messages here on HN [3], they're just abo…

The "pronoun scandal"?

Your digging deep if you grab a github documentation PR as an example of how these people are making problems facing women in technology worse.

It's doubtful that you understand the issues women face and it's even more doubtful that you are able to measure the impact of anyone's efforts towards addressing those problems. Most importantly, it's clear you do not care in the slightest about helping women so your motivation in taking this thread about gittip off-topic is about attacking women.

You are a spineless coward hiding behind an anonymous ID tearing down a couple of women who are at least trying to make the world a better place. There is no way that your efforts could be construed as anything close to helping anyone. For some reason, they threaten you. Sort it out.

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