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Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

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211–220 of 410 posts

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#211
Paternalistic meddling with free consumer choices is always fraught with peril.

Sometimes it is necessary to protect important principles in society. You can't discriminate based on race - that limits choice but who would support the contrary? You can't defraud people in selling products - ditto. You can't buy land to build a smokestack plant in a quiet residential neighborhood - ditto. Many other examples might be cited. In all such cases, the law intervenes to limit private choices. And there are few who would not applaud most such limits. Private choice is not the end all and be all of a society.

Yet, in a free society, private choice should be the overwhelming norm and it should require surmounting very large barriers before legal meddling can limit the choices people can make to serve their own best interests.

Unfortunately, in old-line industries, this idea got flipped and, for years, private choice succumbed to whatever a combination of big government, big corporations, and big unions dictated to the public. Back in the day, writers such as John Kenneth Galbraith even used to celebrate the idea of a "new industrial state" in which the old private competition would yield to ever increasing concentrations of power among government, industry, and labor, who would in turn find ways to "cooperate" with one another in ushering in a more enlightened form of carving up markets and their benefits than mere freedom and competition might provide.

Well, the bureaucratic edict in New Jersey is a relic of that old thinking, perhaps perversely and cynically applied to buy off lobbyists and influencers but rationalized nonetheless by the old paternalistic thinking that the consumer is ultimately best served by having his betters making his buying choices for him rather than being allowed to make them for himself.

Other than in this cynical sense, there is no possible way in which this outrage can possibly be characterized as "protecting" the consumer.

Perhaps the main contribution made by the tech revolution since the 1970s is that it ushered in an era of huge freedom in how people managed their private lives. The internet in particular has been a huge liberating force and so young people especially have come to take it for granted that they can freely make all sorts of choices without having to feel burdened or restricted by the heavy hand of the law. Of course, exceptions can and do remain because abuses can pop up in all sorts of ways without any legal restraints. But, that said, the overwhelming presumption today is that, yes, I can do pretty much what I feel is best for me unless there is a very good reason why I should be restricted from doing so.

And that means, if I live in New Jersey, I should be able to find a local Tesla outlet in which I can buy my electric car if I want. The thought that some politician or bureaucrat should be able to dictate serious limits on that choice is repugnant to anyone who thinks that way. And, in my view, rightly so.

Unfortunately, where the old political pull persists, the law can be abused to protect old-line market players under some guise or other that is a mere pretext for guarding them from competitors who might offer something better and wind up dislodging them in a free market. Legal regulation is not to be rejected out of hand, of course. Maybe the old-line taxi services ought not to have their business cherry-picked by new market entrants who do things differently. Maybe there ought to be some limits in an urban context on absolute free space-letting if this creates nuisances or the like. The line can sometimes be tricky to draw and can require careful and fair-minded judgments given the interests at stake. But how often do we have situations where nothing of the kind happens and instead the issues are decided, in essence, by who pays off whom and who has what degree of political or bureaucratic pull that can be used to protect systems and structures that are far inferior to what the new competition might offer.

I believe that, in these sorts of cases, the tech impetus will ultimately prevail and push things toward broader and freer areas of choice for consumers. Even with this rear-guard action in New Jersey, Teslas can be bought direct from the manufacturer just a short distance away or via remote ordering. And tech-inspired sales and distribution methods in this and a broad swath of other fields will mean that those seeking to limit consumer choice by protecting local turf through bureaucratic pull will be fighting what will ultimately prove to be a losing battle. As consumers, we are not bottled up anymore. If we don't like something that is really stupid, we can more and more work around it using other solutions.

And so we can, I think, basically see that what the local commission is trying to do in New Jersey is much more a last gasp for the old ways as opposed to being a harbinger that will limit Tesla (or any similar new-wave competitor) from accomplishing its goals. Tesla is right to oppose and fight it (and presents a compelling argument for its view). But the action stands out as so bizarre precisely because it is so out of step with the tech impetus that rules our day. It will stand legally (courts are loathe to intervene in such matters). But the longer-term political winds are against it, in my view, and it will prove a temporary obstacle at most as the modern tech impetus advances.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An even bigger conflict of interest with auto dealers is that they make most of their profit from service I am old enough to remember what owning a car was like when things were changing away from mechanical devices one could understand and tinker with and becoming nondescript hunks of plastic you had to buy from a manufacturer. (I'm talking about the ignition system, as one specific example.) There was always a bit…

Yeah, I remember those times, too; perhaps less nostalgically than you do. Take your ignition system example. Sure, one could dig in there and replace and adjust the points. But you did it because you had to, you had to do it regularly, and it would be adjusted correctly exactly once: after you did the job. From there, the points immediately started wearing and it would not be exactly right until you did it again. So…

I heartily believe there's a market for both. Compare a Macbook Pro with a custom built Linux desktop. The MBP is very user friendly, plug n play, and has very little customization capacity. The custom Linux desktop is an absolute tinkerer's paradise, with everything from hardware to software being open for customization.

The car equivalent of these used to exist for daily drivers, but are now relegated mainly to closed course competition vehicles (much to my delight). The Radical SR is probably my favorite one, consisting of a modular vehicle that can be built from a kit shipped in boxes of parts [1].

There is extreme pleasure to be had from driving both a Tesla, and a Radical SR. But both have very different uses, and very different performance and maintenance criteria.

For those interested:

http://www.radicalsportscars.com/uk/

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, he was always a leading favorite Republican candidate among non-Republicans. Primary voters? No way.

Aw, hell, if Chris Christie is "Republican Lite," what chance in hell is there for a non-sociopath Republican candidate?

To be fair, most of the "hardcore" conservatives are not sociopaths, they are just shallow ideologues :)

A true sociopath would appear to be a pragmatist, as that's the most practical approach.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#214
> all Tesla Model S vehicles are capable of over-the-air updates to upgrade the software, just like your phone or computer

It's an interesting future. We are approaching the age of malware infected cars. Does anyone have more info about what the limitations of this internet connected system is? What is possible if someone roots my car?

- Can they disable security system?

- Unlock the car? Lock me out of the car?

- Feed false data (slow destruction of car)? Feed false speed-data? False directions?

- Obtain the cars whereabouts?

- Disable breaks (would assume not)?

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. I am completely uninterested in owning a vehicle which is 0wned by the manufacturer.

Enjoy your horse, then... but only if you're an atheist. :-P

I have an old car, which has a little bit of non-upgradeable firmware in its ECU, and a motorcycle, which has no electronics more complicated than the turn-signal flasher relay. Even an electric car doesn't have to be built with some crazy upgradeable touch-screen computer; it could just be a car.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

whats the difference? 20% of Americans lease their cars from manufacturers right now, when you lease something by its nature you don't own it. Another 60% make use of financing when they buy, in which case the bank owns your car. If you are trying to make an argument about control then make it and maybe give us some more information than just the conclusion of your thoughts.

Sorry if my reference was unclear - I meant "0wned" in the hacker sense, in that ultimate control rests not with you, the owner, but with the manufacturer, who in the case of Tesla can apparently just pump new code out which your car will install. That seems seriously creepy and weird to me. When I buy a car, its previous owner should have no further control over it. OTA updates for a car sound really wrong.

You always have the choice whether to install updates. If you don't want the update, just decline it.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#217
post #202

Could someone explain to a European, in simple words, how the franchise-dealer-factory thing works? If a dealer is the company who actually sales cars and the factory is the one that produces them, why do they need a franchise in between? And how come that a dealer is comparable to a manufacturer Tesla ? Why do they have conflict of interests selling non-gasoline cars?!

It's not a franchise in between. The terminology makes it more confusing than it should be. The dealers buy franchise rights (right to sell that product) from the manufacturers, becoming "franchisees" - franchise owners. So my local Chevy dealership has a franchise from GM. Typically they also have rights to perform service and are certified for repairs on various brands.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the march of Moore's Law, it should currently be feasible for automobile controllers to actually run under a kind of hypervisor and keep a copy of the old system so that it can roll back. (Including by request of the owner.)

Yeah - I would not expect Mus to not have the foresight to do this...

I'm supposing that was sarcasm?

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#219
post #202

Could someone explain to a European, in simple words, how the franchise-dealer-factory thing works? If a dealer is the company who actually sales cars and the factory is the one that produces them, why do they need a franchise in between? And how come that a dealer is comparable to a manufacturer Tesla ? Why do they have conflict of interests selling non-gasoline cars?!

A dealer IS a franchisee. They've been given a franchise by the manufacturer to sell (and service and offer financing for) cars in exchange for meeting a variety of conditions. A similar model is followed for many types of chains, such as restaurants. So the dealer is a middleman that performs various tasks that the manufacturer would otherwise have to do themselves. US auto manufacturers originally went with this approach to avoid many of the costs associated with selling direct (and generally setting up their own manufacturer-owned dealerships).

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a terrific salespitch, especially in how it raises the subject of OTA updates while adroitly waltzing you past the obvious worry that a poorly tested OTA update will brick your car.

GM's latest recall (faulty ignition switch) killed 303 people and covers 1.6 millions vehicles; I think they'd love to have an OTA update method right now, even with the possibility of "bricking" the vehicle. http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-autos-303-dea...

Don't know if an OTA update would fix what is essentially a mechanical problem.
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