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Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

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Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#211

Post by tokenizer »

BadCookie wrote: post #181
benatkin wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Lighten up" doesn't solve anything. I'm not against jokes but the implying man in man pages means male and not an abbreviation of manual is exclusionary. http://therealkatie.net/blog/2012/mar/21/lighten-up/

On the other hand, taking everything so seriously can make the situation worse. I'm a woman in tech, and I don't want the men in tech to feel like they have to walk around on eggshells so as not to offend me. I think that the name "bro pages" is kind of funny, for what it's worth, and all of the protest against the name is the only thing making me uncomfortable.

I thought it was short for "bro"chure anyway. I ctrl+f'ed brother on every page of that site, and I couldn't find any. If anything, people are placing the gender connotation into this command, like people do with "man"ual... why is it the creator and the people who aren't mentioning gender who are being insensitive? I find this entire argument sexist against myself as a man, as the equivalent of this would be creating something called sis and having everyone come down on your because of the name.

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#212

Post by untog »

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #203
ilyanep wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Offensive things have been commonly done before, therefore it's okay" - http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallaci...

Yet I'm sure you've used the libmp3lame encoder all the time. The point here is to illustrate that none of this is offensive . But rather, it's being creative with language.

But you completely missed his point. Just because the industry used to use misogynistic terms is not a good reason for it to continue to do so.

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#213

Post by joyeuse6701 »

blahedo wrote: post #99

Great idea; shame about the name. Here's the problem with using words like "bro" (however jokingly): the problem is not with what you [0] are thinking when you read the word "bro", but with what other people , especially newcomers, are thinking. The locker-room atmosphere that stuff like this creates is a huge barrier to entry for a lot of people, women especially, who infer that on top of all the technically difficu…

I disagree. There is nothing wrong with 'bro' just like there is nothing wrong with a programming language 'Julia'. They are both gender specific and you as an individual can infer whatever you like about the term.

Only you, the individual, can determine how you feel about what someone says or writes, only you can determine whether or not you're insulted.

How something IS vs. how a group FEELS are separate, and one should not confuse the two.

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#214

Post by natch »

BadCookie wrote: post #181
benatkin wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Lighten up" doesn't solve anything. I'm not against jokes but the implying man in man pages means male and not an abbreviation of manual is exclusionary. http://therealkatie.net/blog/2012/mar/21/lighten-up/

On the other hand, taking everything so seriously can make the situation worse. I'm a woman in tech, and I don't want the men in tech to feel like they have to walk around on eggshells so as not to offend me. I think that the name "bro pages" is kind of funny, for what it's worth, and all of the protest against the name is the only thing making me uncomfortable.

Just keep in mind, for every comfortable woman in tech, there are many uncomfortable women who stayed out of tech. because of the stuff that for whatever reason doesn't bother you, but does bother them. Their voices are not represented here.

And the tech world is the poorer for it.

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#215

Post by leif »

primitivesuave wrote: post #199
blahedo wrote: post #99

Great idea; shame about the name. Here's the problem with using words like "bro" (however jokingly): the problem is not with what you [0] are thinking when you read the word "bro", but with what other people , especially newcomers, are thinking. The locker-room atmosphere that stuff like this creates is a huge barrier to entry for a lot of people, women especially, who infer that on top of all the technically difficu…

Interesting point, just want to point out that changing the name is as simple as sudo echo "bro $*" > /usr/bin/explain

sudo echo foo > bar doesn't work, instead use echo foo | sudo tee bar

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#216

Post by overgard »

blahedo wrote: post #99

Great idea; shame about the name. Here's the problem with using words like "bro" (however jokingly): the problem is not with what you [0] are thinking when you read the word "bro", but with what other people , especially newcomers, are thinking. The locker-room atmosphere that stuff like this creates is a huge barrier to entry for a lot of people, women especially, who infer that on top of all the technically difficu…

Absolutely, lets throw away our sense of humor and wordplay because there are theoretically people that might be offended (maybe, kindof. You know. In theory.).

(N.B. the people that seem to be offended so far are offended on other peoples behalf..)

Isn't it way more offensive to assume that women are such dainty delicate creatures that like, they won't get the joke?

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#217

Post by philwelch »

blahedo wrote: post #99

Great idea; shame about the name. Here's the problem with using words like "bro" (however jokingly): the problem is not with what you [0] are thinking when you read the word "bro", but with what other people , especially newcomers, are thinking. The locker-room atmosphere that stuff like this creates is a huge barrier to entry for a lot of people, women especially, who infer that on top of all the technically difficu…

U mad bro?

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#218

Post by ItendToDisagree »

wonderzombie wrote: post #138
pstack wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't tell if people here are being intentionally thick or not. "Is bro supposed to be sexist or is it meant to be ironic?" "Man referred to manual, not men!" I can't even imagine many of you people watching a stand-up comic. Your heads must verge on exploding. The diagram for the pun/humor here would be about as simple as a diagram could be.

Why should anyone's head explode? A stand-up comic who isn't funny pisses off the audience, it's incredibly painful to watch, and the comic doesn't get invited back.

Seems to work for Dane Cook pretty well doesn't it?

Ba Dum Chhhh!

In all seriousness though "funny" is in the eye of the beholder. Jon Benjamin and Mitch Hedberg both tell what amount to non-jokes and have intentionally unfunny standup on occasion and that's actually their whole gig.

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#219

Post by Tloewald »

Great idea and the name is funny, but it seems to me that the obvious name, just sitting there waiting to be used, is help. Another option would simply be to subvert man (since this is far more useful than man) so e.g. man gives you the examples but gives you a keystroke option to switch to the original man page in the case you actually want it.

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#220

Post by vezzy-fnord »

KVFinn wrote: post #198
ihuman wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that your argument has the same flaws has res0nat0r's argument: neither of you know what the author was thinking when he named it. Was the creator thinking of brogramming? Was the creator thinking of it being the "bro"ther of the man pages? None of us know, so it is useless to argue about it.

>Was the creator thinking of brogramming? Was the creator thinking of it being the "bro"ther of the man pages? What does intent matter? If the discussion on a tool is overtaken by the discussion on the gender trolling in the name, then feedback that the name is off putting to a portion of the potential audience is valid. If I was marketing a product in a foreign language, I would be open to feedback that the name has…

(Incidentally, based on the single example being 'bro curl' as in "Do you even lift bro?" curls, I think brogrammer was in fact the origin of the name)

"Do you even lift, bro?" and "brogrammer" are two completely different things, despite both sharing the root "bro". One's a meme that originated from /fit/ (IIRC) and the other is a neologism that describes a frat boy subculture that is allegedly overtaking programming, and as an insult to one who is deemed to be a part of this subculture.

What the fuck is up with you people and seeing "brogrammer" in every word that contains "bro"? Is your understanding of language and etymology that narrow that it does not extend beyond tech circles?

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