Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

susieye.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 238 posts

Re: To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

#211

Post by vacri »

boyaka wrote: post #196
vacri wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, he didn't. He said "smart women choose not to go into coding. Leave that to us men to handle for you". Men hate the job? Really? Then why has Silicon Valley filled up with men from all over the world struggling to crowbar their way into it? Coding isn't a horrible job - if it was, you wouldn't have such high salaries and companies with anti-poaching arrangements to prevent further inflating those salaries. It was…

I see exceptions, true. But even more so I see the trend. I see exceptions becoming more rare.

Are you looking at all the people around you? Retirees? Homeless bums? Quiet, bookish people? The religiose? Conservatives, progressives, anarchists, libertarians and the apolitical? Gym junkies? Down-to-earth pragmatics and scatterbrained airheads? Stern, humourless people? Workaholics?

I'm interested to know which blanket statements you're thinking about that have only rare exceptions.

Re: To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

#212

Post by animus9 »

primitivesuave wrote: post #112
MichaelGG wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about just being harsh on "psuedo-masculine efforts"? Just like if you had mostly white kids and they made the black kids "feel uncomfortable" by "awkward" kids, the answer is to meet the stupid jokes and what not with sincerity and make them realise how absurd the behaviour is. Just like in other co-ed classes if boys make whatever jokes, it gets slapped down. Separating things sounds like it'd just make the mal…

We don't segregate, we simply offer the all-girls class as an alternative. We still have girls in our regular class and they are very chill. I'm not saying we have an issue with boys acting out, I'm saying that when we get that occasional kid who makes things uncomfortable, some girls get visibly put off by it. I train all my instructors on how to deal with inappropriate comments and to let me know about them, so my…

An all boys class sure would be a breath of fresh air: it might be possible to focus on the actual education for once. Voluntary segregation seems like it would solve a lot of problems and eliminate our favourite scapegoats.

Re: To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

#213

Post by yeukhon »

DanBC wrote: post #174
yummyfajitas wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once upon a time, progressive modernist thinkers believed that the correct response to vile speech was a well thought out logical rebuttal. I miss those days. Nowadays it's dismiss, demonize and downvote.

I miss the days when things that gratify my intelectual curiosity where the things that got upvotes on HN and things that attract low value flaming didn't get upvoted. Have a look through this thead for the number of people making the "we don't have programmes to get men in nursing" point. Then see that point being made, and rebutted, in every single previous similar thread. There is no point trying to hold logical c…

We all carry some bias. It's like telling a strong animal rightist about hunting. They are not going to agree with you whatsoever, even if it's just philosophical discussion.

> Then see that point being made, and rebutted, in every single previous similar thread. There is no point trying to hold logical conversation with people who are dishonest.

People are just trying to bring out their own arguments. It's not all that weird to argue that someone would want to have more male nurses because the public image of nurse is feminine.

Some arguments are weak and some are strong. For example, in abortion, the two most flammable are status of the fetus and the woman's right, but to be honest, after reading Rosalind Hursthouse's Abortion paper, you will that neither is relevant in the discussion of abortion. But we still bring them up because that's just how people view the issue and I think that's fair and not dishonest.

Dismissive and dishonest responses are those just reject facts without proof. For example, if someone says there are enough women in the tech sector that's a lie because we know the number is not high and we shouldn't place any quota at all. But if someone says that we have enough opportunity for women to enter the tech sector that's not dismissive or dishonest. It's a fair argument because the lack of resource vary from location to location, from age to age, from school to school and vary from personal experience.

Re: To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

#214

Post by animus9 »

_bfhp wrote: post #88
MichaelGG wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about just being harsh on "psuedo-masculine efforts"? Just like if you had mostly white kids and they made the black kids "feel uncomfortable" by "awkward" kids, the answer is to meet the stupid jokes and what not with sincerity and make them realise how absurd the behaviour is. Just like in other co-ed classes if boys make whatever jokes, it gets slapped down. Separating things sounds like it'd just make the mal…

I agree -- kids receive all kinds of messages about how girls and boys should act, from the media, their parents, and their peers, and a lot of it is just plain toxic and manifest in masculinity-affirming posturing and violence. It's essential to look at these things if we really want "equality".

This is one sided. No doubt there are those men who are violent and indecent: But nobody ever suggested that we mould man after these barbarians, or generalize masculinity based on such poor examples. The same character flaws exist in the opposite sex but manifest themselves differently (with comparable detriment).

Equality is a one dimensional metric and a kind of tunnel vision that undermines true ethics. Should a small man eat the same quantity of food as a large man? It would be equal. Have you given away most of your wealth to the poor and needy so that everyone has an equal share? Shall we cut the legs off the tall so that they are the same height as the short? Or throw acid on the beautiful so they have no advantage over the ugly?

Re: To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

#215

Post by poorelise »

pyrocat wrote: post #208
poorelise wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So advocating mens right is equal to being a rightwing military cult person? Are you really of the opinion that men's rights are not important? Also, ad hominem...

I'm saying the way Animus9 'advocates mens rights' is equal to being a rightwing military cult person.

And which of his comments makes you think so?

Re: To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

#216

Post by MichaelGG »

animus9 wrote: post #214
_bfhp wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree -- kids receive all kinds of messages about how girls and boys should act, from the media, their parents, and their peers, and a lot of it is just plain toxic and manifest in masculinity-affirming posturing and violence. It's essential to look at these things if we really want "equality".

This is one sided. No doubt there are those men who are violent and indecent: But nobody ever suggested that we mould man after these barbarians, or generalize masculinity based on such poor examples. The same character flaws exist in the opposite sex but manifest themselves differently (with comparable detriment). Equality is a one dimensional metric and a kind of tunnel vision that undermines true ethics. Should a…

No one is suggesting that opposite sex negative things (cliques, shaming girls based on clothes, whatever other things they do) is acceptable.

But I've yet to hear anyone complaining about boys being intimidated and not participating in a class because it was full of girls being bitchy. And to the extend that it happens (someone mocking an ugly kid in class), I'd assume it'd get slapped down in the same way.

The "masculinity-affirming posturing and violence" that the parent refers to is pretty much entirely negative. There's no benefit to praise, accept, or encourage that kind of behaviour.

Re: To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

#217

Post by pyrocat »

poorelise wrote: post #215
pyrocat wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm saying the way Animus9 'advocates mens rights' is equal to being a rightwing military cult person.

And which of his comments makes you think so?

Take your pick: https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=animus9

Re: To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

#218

Post by animus9 »

MichaelGG wrote: post #216
animus9 wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one sided. No doubt there are those men who are violent and indecent: But nobody ever suggested that we mould man after these barbarians, or generalize masculinity based on such poor examples. The same character flaws exist in the opposite sex but manifest themselves differently (with comparable detriment). Equality is a one dimensional metric and a kind of tunnel vision that undermines true ethics. Should a…

No one is suggesting that opposite sex negative things (cliques, shaming girls based on clothes, whatever other things they do) is acceptable. But I've yet to hear anyone complaining about boys being intimidated and not participating in a class because it was full of girls being bitchy. And to the extend that it happens (someone mocking an ugly kid in class), I'd assume it'd get slapped down in the same way. The "mas…

That's right you haven't heard any complaining: because they just go to a different field to avoid it. And then all the noise eventually follows along and complains that the field is all male. And the cycle repeats.

Men are interested in doing something and creating something, and we will continue doing this forever. Those who cannot do this will continue to complain and blame someone else for their situation. A lack of personal responsibility (independent of gender) will always result in failure.

Re: To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

#219

Post by poorelise »

pyrocat wrote: post #217
poorelise wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And which of his comments makes you think so?

Take your pick: https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=animus9

I had read those, but I didn't see anything military right-wing in them.

Re: To the Girls of HackerNews: I am a Female Founder who Codes

#220

Post by ps4fanboy »

tomp wrote: post #153
ps4fanboy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think for a long time programming has been presented as very hostile to work life balance, I had read about examples in high school like horror stories of crunch time. I think this does a lot to discourage women and men. My brother in law is doing programming at the same University that I did and the class sizes are 1/5th what they were when I was there.

Really? I would imagine it's exactly the opposite - it's one of the rare professions that can earn you a livable salary without working overtime/two jobs. Though, maybe if one extrapolates about the entire profession from the few famous startups (and movies about them), you're quite correct.

I am not talking about reality but outsiders perceptions of what the industry is like.
Post reply on HN