Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

About PayPal's Node vs Java “fight”

developer-blog.cloudbees.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–216 of 216 posts

Re: About PayPal's Node vs Java “fight”

#211

Post by mtrimpe »

ExpiredLink wrote: post #201
porker wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any system with separated modules is going to have dependencies. Thank you. I thought I was the only doing my nut in over "I've done DI, now I have all the same dependencies" ... adds DIC ... "Now I have all the same dependencies but higher up, and.. oh I need to add logging to 80% of the objects" [Goes to kill myself] I have OCD about writing beautiful code. The more I try, it seems to real world prevents it from…

Try dependency management instead of dependency injection. Layered, modular, hierarchical design instead of 'anything injected into anything'. Divide and conquer instead of DI spaghetti. Testable independent modules instead of mocked-out stubs...

If you want to promote an alternate paradigm you might want to learn to directly argue in favor of your alternative, tather than randomly attacking things that don't fit your personal aesthetics.

I'm also not particularly enamored with the current state of affairs although my pet peeve is more with the lack of adoption of functional reactive programming. That doesn't mean though that I refuse to acknowledge what (or when) Spring was good for or how it fits into the evolution of the industry.

Re: About PayPal's Node vs Java “fight”

#212

Post by [deleted] »

edwinnathaniel wrote: post #192
mattmanser wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? C#'s had Nuget quite a while ago now. Why are Java developers always like 5 years behind on C# improvements? And build systems are something g you set up one afternoon, why are you so fixated on a tiny part of the programming process?

... And Nuget is always behind Maven. ... And C# devs always borrow patterns and best practices from the Java ecosystem, so I think it's you guys who are always 5 years behind us. ... If you're using MSBuild or Nant and can set up an adequate build system in one afternoon, either your project is super simple crud, or you're not using enough tools to ensure proper engineering/verification, or you're the top 5-10% peop…

[deleted]

Re: About PayPal's Node vs Java “fight”

#213

Post by mattgreenrocks »

ebiester wrote: post #208
mattgreenrocks wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know of any shops that use Uncle Bob's approach (besides 8th Light, of course)? I don't; I wish I did. I agree that isn't something you'd use every time, but I feel there isn't a whole lot of data out there when people have used it. All I see online are devs whining about the extra work. I don't know what it is about the web, but it's as if we decided all of software architecture didn't mean anything and threw…

I have plans to try it in a side project. I too am skeptical about the rewards of setting up a CRUD system like that. It isn't that we've decided that software architecture meant nothing; rather, we settled on one architecture that is Good Enough. The View/Controller/Domain paradigm of Rails works for many projects.

It won't be great for CRUD. It's really meant for applications that have a bunch of business logic to them...you know, the interesting apps.

Aside: "good enough" seems to summarize the web as a whole. This is both discouraging and a fact of life.

Re: About PayPal's Node vs Java “fight”

#214

Post by ebiester »

mattgreenrocks wrote: post #213
ebiester wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have plans to try it in a side project. I too am skeptical about the rewards of setting up a CRUD system like that. It isn't that we've decided that software architecture meant nothing; rather, we settled on one architecture that is Good Enough. The View/Controller/Domain paradigm of Rails works for many projects.

It won't be great for CRUD. It's really meant for applications that have a bunch of business logic to them...you know, the interesting apps. Aside: "good enough" seems to summarize the web as a whole. This is both discouraging and a fact of life.

You can still have an interesting business logic system that is CRUD at its core. A case management system, as an example, is CRUD at its basis but filled with business logic.

Re: About PayPal's Node vs Java “fight”

#215

Post by socialist_coder »

thomasz wrote: post #193
socialist_coder wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, you can run command line c# apps just fine but the web hosting solutions for c# web apps are terrible compared to IIS + Windows. And this is coming from a linux veteran who wrote a C# web app and hosted it in production on Linux for a few months and then had to re-write it in .NET MVC hosted on IIS. I hate Windows servers. Every time I have to RDP into them to change some configs instead of just vi'ing files in…

> Every time I have to RDP into them to change some configs instead of just vi'ing files in /etc I want to shoot myself. Ugh, maybe you should try out at least one of the several options for remotely managing IIS before you shoot (or embarrass) yourself?

You still have to dig through 20+ screens of possible configuration values, some configs are in web.config in your app, some are in some other machine.config files, etc. The configuration just seems like a mess compared to your standard linux app with everything nicely organized in /etc/

Not to mention the difference of opinions you get when you search for IIS tuning info/documentation. Half the stuff is only valid for older versions of IIS and there doesn't seem to be a lot of good info on the latest version when it comes to tuning.

Re: About PayPal's Node vs Java “fight”

#216

Post by radicalbyte »

socialist_coder wrote: post #215
thomasz wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every time I have to RDP into them to change some configs instead of just vi'ing files in /etc I want to shoot myself. Ugh, maybe you should try out at least one of the several options for remotely managing IIS before you shoot (or embarrass) yourself?

You still have to dig through 20+ screens of possible configuration values, some configs are in web.config in your app, some are in some other machine.config files, etc. The configuration just seems like a mess compared to your standard linux app with everything nicely organized in /etc/ Not to mention the difference of opinions you get when you search for IIS tuning info/documentation. Half the stuff is only valid f…

You need to use the command line configuration tools, it has got a lot better than it used to be (thanks to Azure, I assume). Still nowhere near as consistent/logical as Linux, but it's getting better..
Post reply on HN