Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What is Microsoft smoking?

irrlicht3d.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 253 posts

Re: What is Microsoft smoking?

#211

Post by yuhong »

vetinari wrote: post #107
adventured wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, interesting claim. So, how much money has Microsoft been making from patents exactly? Since you've made a very dramatic statement, I'd like to see a specific figure. And then I'd like to see that compared to Office, Windows, Server & Tools, etc. Why would anybody buy hardware with Windows on it, only to install Debian? Build your own systems, that's the really obvious and really simple answer. You're blaming Micr…

So while we are here, why the entitlement to use Intel CPUs, right? They should go and and make their own silicon ingots and then their own CPUs in their own fab, right? There is a reason why the world is organized around this 'division of labor' concept. Excluding someone from it and then calling the complains about it an entitlement is not a good way forward.

Reminds of the days when Compaq etc built their own chipsets. Of course I am not expecting them to do it now, but I do wish they were still as willing to fix BIOS bugs.

Re: What is Microsoft smoking?

#212

Post by kalms »

untog wrote: post #208
potatolicious wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "they can all be pretty easily reverted" Can they though? Sure, it's pretty trivial to remove the code that enforces these restrictions, but I don't think it's Microsoft enforcing it. Think about it - used games (mostly) go through authorized retailers, can only be sold once, where said retailers collect a cut, and Microsoft collects none. This isn't about Microsoft's bottom line, this is about the bottom line of G…

This isn't about Microsoft's bottom line, this is about the bottom line of GameStop, EA, Activision, etc. And it's them that will make or break this choice. If they deprioritise the Playstation platform because it allows customers to sell used games, MS could still win out. If they back down and support the Playstation just fine, MS loses. So it's not even in Microsoft's hands.

In the end, the publishers will go where the consumers are. And if we judge by the titles available on the PS4, I'd say that Sony has a pretty good hand right now.

Re: What is Microsoft smoking?

#213

Post by venomsnake »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #209
sauravc wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What landed them in Federal Court was bundling a browser (the most advanced at the time) with their OS for free. Over a decade later, we all know that a consumer OS that ships without a browser is an incomplete product (as BillG testified in the case). What Apple is doing now with dictatorial actions in its app stores is just as, if not more, overreaching IMHO. Does that make it OK? No. But keep in mind why people we…

They did more than bundle a browser, they gave OEMs financial incentives NOT to bundle Netscape. The reason why Apple's dictatorial actions don't bother me is they're only a small part of the market. If I want to develop a mobile web browser, I can still use Android and have a market. With Windows, Microsoft WAS the market.

With the tablets there was a time (roughly a year) when Apple was the market.

Re: What is Microsoft smoking?

#214

Post by yuhong »

astrodust wrote: post #176
venomsnake wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft had all the cards to win the device war. But they forgot what made them win the PC war. They tried to emulate apple while forgetting that people that bought into apple ideology already had apple. If the W8 arm was unlocked it would have been a big winner. WP7 just needed fast moving instead of stagnation and they almost got everything right with the original xbox and X360 in the beginning. But I am moving a…

What made them win the PC war was what landed them in federal court. By controlling the Windows ecosystem they could "disrupt" any competitors trying to produce applications, pushing Office while alternatives struggled, and they could use Office to push Windows. Charging OEMs a flat "per-CPU" fee for licensing meant that Microsoft was getting paid regardless of the OS being shipped on the system. They eventually had…

My personal favorite is the MS OS/2 2.0 fiasco: http://yuhongbao.blogspot.ca/2012/12/about-ms-os2-20-fiasco-...

Re: What is Microsoft smoking?

#215

Post by rahoulb »

sauravc wrote: post #189
astrodust wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What made them win the PC war was what landed them in federal court. By controlling the Windows ecosystem they could "disrupt" any competitors trying to produce applications, pushing Office while alternatives struggled, and they could use Office to push Windows. Charging OEMs a flat "per-CPU" fee for licensing meant that Microsoft was getting paid regardless of the OS being shipped on the system. They eventually had…

What landed them in Federal Court was bundling a browser (the most advanced at the time) with their OS for free. Over a decade later, we all know that a consumer OS that ships without a browser is an incomplete product (as BillG testified in the case). What Apple is doing now with dictatorial actions in its app stores is just as, if not more, overreaching IMHO. Does that make it OK? No. But keep in mind why people we…

Not just the browser.

They also had pricing schemes with OEMs that made it impossible for the box builders to release any products with alternative OSes preinstalled (as it would raise the price of their Windows license). And a box builder that couldn't sell a competitive Windows machine was effectively useless.

Hitachi backing out of pre-installing (the technically amazing) BeOS is what eventually killed the company. Years later the shareholders won in court but by then Be was dead.

Re: What is Microsoft smoking?

#216

Post by AndyKelley »

jimmar wrote: post #194
falcolas wrote: post #187

I don't think that Sony "won" E3, or that Microsoft lost. Instead, Sony called Microsoft's bluff. Stay with me here. All of the restrictions that Microsoft has put forth are enforced by software - they can all be pretty easily reverted. I'm willing to bet that Microsoft was really hoping that Sony would see this as the future of console gaming, and would follow their lead at E3. This way consumers would have been giv…

This is "signaling." Companies are not allowed to meet and align their strategies. E.g. car rental companies can't get together and agree to raise their rates 10% next year. (A few years back I think Budget got in trouble for basically proposing that other car rental companies follow their lead in raising rates in a conference call). However, companies can send each other signals in various ways. Microsoft may have b…

> It's probably a bid for market share more than a bid for consumer happiness, in my opinion.

What's the difference?

Re: What is Microsoft smoking?

#217

Post by podperson »

venomsnake wrote: post #51
zainny wrote: post #4

Interestingly enough there is a point at which I thought Microsoft was really going to hit some home runs not all that long ago. Since then though the trifecta of Windows Phone 8, Windows 8, and Xbox One has turned me away from their entire product line. Combined with my own movements over the years towards open source desktop software and web applications (Google Docs, etc.) and Microsoft barely rates a mention in m…

Microsoft had all the cards to win the device war. But they forgot what made them win the PC war. They tried to emulate apple while forgetting that people that bought into apple ideology already had apple. If the W8 arm was unlocked it would have been a big winner. WP7 just needed fast moving instead of stagnation and they almost got everything right with the original xbox and X360 in the beginning. But I am moving a…

Microsoft had all the cards back in 2008, maybe. The missteps started with Vista and Zune, and continued with Windows Phone 7, and were magnified with Windows 8, Windows 8 RT, and now XBox One. There's also the big non-step of trying to starve the iPad by not porting Office to it -- which has made it glaringly obvious how little we need Office to get stuff done.

I'd say Microsoft's problem now is pretty intractable. I think it's quite possible there will be no victor in XBox One vs. PS4 just as there was no victor in Bluray vs. HD-DVD (Bluray just lost more slowly).

Re: What is Microsoft smoking?

#218

Post by MichaelGG »

hackinthebochs wrote: post #199
AlexanderDhoore wrote: post #23

Microsoft Is Spread Too Thin. That's it. That is the reason most of their products are half-assed. They have database systems. Server, desktop, and tablet/phone operating systems. Web, desktop, mobile development environments, all in multiple languages. They have their IaaS and PaaS offerings. They have end user services like Skydrive and Outlook. Then there is everything Office. And games, both PC and Xbox. Also, Bi…

So Xbox is half-assed because you don't like their all digital model? Come now. You may not agree with the model, but nothing I've seen from this generation xbox can be honestly called half-assed.

Well, except the entire dashboard and game purchasing system on the actual console. It's incredibly terrible. The cycle of update and reboot (I've watched my Xbox360 reboot 3 times for updates after turning it on once) is silly. The dashboard is extremely slow. You select something like "download game", and you can count several seconds between the rendering of every element on the screen that pops up. It's terribly half-assed.

Re: What is Microsoft smoking?

#219

Post by o1iver »

podperson wrote: post #217
venomsnake wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft had all the cards to win the device war. But they forgot what made them win the PC war. They tried to emulate apple while forgetting that people that bought into apple ideology already had apple. If the W8 arm was unlocked it would have been a big winner. WP7 just needed fast moving instead of stagnation and they almost got everything right with the original xbox and X360 in the beginning. But I am moving a…

Microsoft had all the cards back in 2008, maybe. The missteps started with Vista and Zune, and continued with Windows Phone 7, and were magnified with Windows 8, Windows 8 RT, and now XBox One. There's also the big non-step of trying to starve the iPad by not porting Office to it -- which has made it glaringly obvious how little we need Office to get stuff done. I'd say Microsoft's problem now is pretty intractable.…

Why did Bluray loose? I love Bluray. And I buy them too...

Re: What is Microsoft smoking?

#220

Post by dasil003 »

o1iver wrote: post #219
podperson wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft had all the cards back in 2008, maybe. The missteps started with Vista and Zune, and continued with Windows Phone 7, and were magnified with Windows 8, Windows 8 RT, and now XBox One. There's also the big non-step of trying to starve the iPad by not porting Office to it -- which has made it glaringly obvious how little we need Office to get stuff done. I'd say Microsoft's problem now is pretty intractable.…

Why did Bluray loose? I love Bluray. And I buy them too...

He means disc growth is stagnant with all future growth apparently going to streaming.
Post reply on HN