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SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

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Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#211
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible (although unlikely) that this _is_ a suspension. "Tell the DDoS clowns that she's no longer employed there, they move on, after the Internet recovers from its non-linear response to this whole situation, reinstate her with a profuse apology to everyone." I'm not sure that's better than just muscling through the DDoS, but when you can't deliver service to your customers, some folks get creative.

I think that would make the company look even worse. Announcing they're going to fire someone then retracting that statement when things die down? Sounds childish and unprofessional (much like this whole situation).

Retain her as a consultant, maybe?

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#212
I don't understand why this whole issue is being looked at from a feminist Angle. What would the reaction be if a guy has tweeted the same thing? I am not sure if what she did was right/wrong. deciding if she is right or wrong considering it a action of a women saddens me.

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#213
This reminds me why I hate real names on public social networking when talking about these types of issues.

Whatever this woman's original motive was got immediately lost in the shallow exchanges which follow, but the commentary becomes important because it is now personal.

I feel more contempt for the real name trolls now gloating over her firing too. None of whom I assume were present at the original event. The internet is full of bile, but I'm happier with anonymous bile.

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does accidental immature behavior work? "let's check out this pitch and then grab a beer" at a startup VC pitch event sensitive woman in front of you hears: "let's check out of this bitch and grab a beer" turns around, pics, tweets, gets you fired on the spot. HOW IS THIS OKAY? public shaming is NOT the right response. IT'S JUST NOT. what a stunning lack of imagination.

So, here's the problem with your little fantasy: These guys were actually making sexual jokes . This wasn't a single mis-heard phrase.

Yes, actually there was. One of the things that she was upset about was what she perceived to be a sexual joke about the word "fork" sounding like "fuck".

What she didn't understand (since she's not a developer, and probably isn't exposed to these things) is that "fork" is a reference to "git fork".

And if you were to read the follow ups from the guys who were shamed over their oh-so-offensive discussion of dongles and code management, you would see that "fork" was an in joke between them. "Fork" in this context meaning a form of flattery.

For instance "Danilo is a good developer; I'd for his repo".

There is NOTHING sexual about this, but you might not know that if you're not a person who uses git.

Which is exactly what happened.

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have two sexist/innapropriate developers Inappropriate yes, sexist no (a "dongle" private joke can hardly be construed as sexist, seriously). > one employer who (apparently, there is STILL no evidence for this fact beyond the anonymous pastebin!) fired one of the first guys on questionable evidence Apparently? A blog post from their CEO not evidence enough: http://blog.playhaven.com/addressing-pycon/ ? Also fire…

Read your article: "we will not comment on all the factors that contributed to our parting ways." I still suspect this was a firing for many reasons, not just this incident.

If they didn't essentially fire him for making a dongle joke, they'd probably have tried harder to make that clear in the announcement

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#216

http://imgur.com/5tbXR2c

I don't understand what's wrong with this. This is quite literally the definition of racism in a sociological context: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism#Sociological . You're going to need to disprove a lot of social science before you tackle this definition.

Context is everything. No other definition for racism given in the same article depends on the racist being a member of a privileged race.

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#217
post #20

I really wish that this whole thing could have ended amicably (perhaps with Adria apologizing to the devs [by the way, the guy who was fired has already publicly apologized]). It's too bad that sendgrid had to fire her, I would never wish that somebody had their livlihood taken from them like that, but her job was to be a developer evangelist, which is a job she isn't realistically capable of performing anymore. I wo…

> "Most [all, actually] of the women I've talked to about this are furious with her over how badly this portrays women."

Okay, time to speak up! Hi, I'm a woman in tech. And this upset me, but not for the reasons you think. I agree that Adria went too far in publicly Tweeting and "name and shaming" these guys. But the vitriol and hate that has spewed forth online to her is what takes my breath away. Comments calling her a "cunt" and saying she should be raped (this I found on her blog, presumably before she had a chance to delete it.)

As a woman in tech, I deal with sexism all the time. And it's usually not blatant, "blah blah a woman's place is in the home get out of my office" type of stuff. That's egregious and I would shut that down. It's usually less obvious. Like the guy at a conference I went to recently (with my fiance, Brian) who asked me my name, asked Brian his name, and then proceeded to spend 10 minutes talking to Brian and trying to figure out why he (who is a front-end developer at a startup) was at an entrepreneurial conference.

My fiance: I'm here because of Erica. (points at me)

Guy: Oh. But I don't get it. Why are you here?

Brian: She comes here because she's a successful entrepreneur and likes to hang out with other entrepreneurs. I'm tagging along with her.

Guy: Oh. But you're not an entrepreneur...so why are you here?

This went on like this for several minutes. Dude never said a single word to me, and finally wandered off, confused.

Or a more recent scenario at SXSW where I was talking to a huge, well-known tech big-wig (founder of a multi-billion-dollar tech company) who proceeded to make a flippant, condescending remark about his wife--and then stared at me, the only woman nearby, to gauge my reaction. Borderline sexist, but definitely unprofessional. What do I do? Do I call him out by name? Right now it's been a week and I'm still working out the best course of action. I'm horribly disappointed because this is someone I looked up to and hoped to have as a mentor.

These are just recent examples. I am hard-pressed to name a conference I've attended where one of these "borderline" sexist issues hasn't happened. Oh, wait, I can...the coworking conference I recently attended, where nearly 50% of the attendees were women.

Was Adria's reaction, to this as an isolated event, out of hand? Yes. But when this happens to you every single day--and in her case, multiple times a day!--sometimes you can't take it anymore and you just snap. I get where she's coming from, even if I wouldn't have done the same thing in her situation.

This doesn't portray women as badly as it portrays our entire tech culture badly. It's as frustrating to me as it is to anyone else. The blatant sexism is mostly gone, but the undertones remain. And that makes it harder than ever to gauge what the "right" reaction is as a woman when one of these events happens around you.

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#218
post #8

Although this would seem to be another knee-jerk, exaggerated reaction, and I personally believe that she shouldn't have been fired (and that the first guy shouldn't have been either), we should also consider the SendGrid CEO's position; his company is under attack, might fail, so getting rid of the person whom this attack is targeting seems like the obvious thing to do. I'm guessing that SendGrid will loose some oth…

The DDOS attack on SendGrid's web and mail servers stopped about an hour and a half after they announced that they were firing Richards. Also the community backlash against Richards was huge, while there weren't many supporting her actions. From SendGrid's point of view, this was a good business decision.

[deleted]

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#219
post #20

I really wish that this whole thing could have ended amicably (perhaps with Adria apologizing to the devs [by the way, the guy who was fired has already publicly apologized]). It's too bad that sendgrid had to fire her, I would never wish that somebody had their livlihood taken from them like that, but her job was to be a developer evangelist, which is a job she isn't realistically capable of performing anymore. I wo…

I would feel really uncomfortable if I was in the same room as this person. What if I accidentally say something that she finds offensive? Am I next?

People say the same things all the time in companies where women complain about inappropriate sexuality. "What if I say something that offends her?"

Most of us are good, inoffensive people. We are saddled with growing up in a world that is changing. It used to be acceptable to have a topless woman on a calendar in your locker at the factory. Not any more. Men used to take each other to strip clubs for business entertaining. Not outside of Oracle.

We all deal with the fact that we're in the middle of change, and it isn't always comfortable. Just as it wasn't comfortable for people dealing with the acceptance of homosexuals: I think everyone accepts that the word "faggot" is no longer appropriate.

It would be far, far easier for everyone if they just, well, shut up. But these things are hard, and it's up to our generation to carve out new social norms so that our children will reflexively and automatically act in ways that don't offend anyone.

I feel for you, there's absolutely zero wrong with you having and expressing these concerns. My message to you is that we men can come together and support each other and be a generation that others look back on with respect, just as we look back on the generations that broke the colour barriers with respect.

Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas

#220
post #20

I really wish that this whole thing could have ended amicably (perhaps with Adria apologizing to the devs [by the way, the guy who was fired has already publicly apologized]). It's too bad that sendgrid had to fire her, I would never wish that somebody had their livlihood taken from them like that, but her job was to be a developer evangelist, which is a job she isn't realistically capable of performing anymore. I wo…

> (perhaps with Adria apologizing to the devs). What, exactly, has she to apologize for? The people in question were speaking like they were in a frat house in direct contravention of a code of conduct they'd agreed to. They had the right to speak. And Adria had the right to tweet. If they didn't like being publicly outed for saying this stuff, guess what? All they had to do was shut their mouths. > What if I acciden…

Really Danilo? You don't see anything wrong with what she did? This is OK. Next time you are at PyCon people can take face shots of your, post them online, with stupid childish insults underneath to see like "ass clown".

It is really sad that you don't see why that might create a hostile and unwelcome environment. Notice, not as many condemn her for _PRIVATELY_ notifying organizers. That is event #1, event #2 was that she publicly posted her tweet. That is not OK and it is sad to see you condone and defend that.

PSF has also been hiding in the weeds with event #2. They issued a neutral statement about #1 and then a surreptitious Github update to their policy to include some of what happened.

If this was a groping incident and all they did was made a Github commit, there would be a shitstorm 10x this one. But public face picture posting with insulting tags, for friends, kids, employers, to see, essentially forever is OK.

I've said it before and will repeat myself again, unless PyCon organizers issue a condemning statement I will not be coming to PyCon. It is a hostile environment and I don't feel safe.

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