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Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com

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Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#211

Post by dworrad »

scott_s wrote: post #191
dworrad wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't increase your aerobic capacity... It will raise your lactate threshold. The only way to increase your aerobic capacity is to spend a large amount of time exercising at an aerobic heart rate.

It depends on how much rest you're getting inbetween your intervals. If the rest is short enough that your heart rate never goes back down to normal, then you're also working your aerobic capacity. When I train jiu-jitsu, I do several rounds of live rolling. Usually something like 4 6-minute rounds with a minute rest inbetween. The hard part of live rolling is the anaerobic part: quick spurts of high intensity. How f…

You can run easily because your placate threshold has been significantly increased... doing sprints won't improve your aerobic capacity to any great degree... just ask Usain Bolt

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#212

Post by danneu »

danso wrote: post #5

How do people who've taken it for most of their adult life cope with adderall usage? I mean, how necessary of a drug does it seem to be -- or, to put it another way, how bad are the withdrawals, compared to antipsychotics, painkillers, etc? And if you've lived with adderall usage, do you chronically feel like you have a reduced appetite and all the other kinds of symptoms? I've heard that happens for people who take…

When you take amphetamine every day, you incur a debt that can only be repaid by taking a break. If you don't pay back the debt, you enter the risky business of increasing your dose and dancing with the loan shark that always collects.

So I imagine most chronic amphetamine users like myself have a healthy relationship with it or we'd burn out like the girl in the article which is a rather familiar tale of classic abuse.

Amphetamine side-effects never go away. If you're tolerant of the side-effects, you're tolerant of the very effect you're taking it for. In fact, the side-effects are a good indicator of where you are in a dose. The onset of cotton mouth is what reminds you that it's working.

Even after a month or two of constant amphetamine use, withdrawal for me is at most a week of some scatterbrained lethargy (paying back that debt). The demons of amphetamine are the side-effects and psychological dependency, not the weak withdrawal. Unfortunately you're susceptible to those demons no matter how long you've been prescribed.

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#213

Post by danneu »

throwaway04583 wrote: post #126
benhebert wrote: post #56

The US refuses to admit that the real drug problem are prescriptions. The effects of prolonged adderall usage have not been studied and I can't imagine how it interacts with other medications. It's a schedule II narcotic with a high similar to cocaine. Keep your kids off of it.

I realize you're probably trolling, but just in case.. The 'high' of adderall is not even remotely similar to cocaine.

Cocaine and amphetamine result in the same flood of the same neurotransmitters. Cocaine has no surprises for anyone that's ever been cracked out on instant release speed. Except maybe making them go "...is this it?"

Lots of overlap between the two, especially when comparing pharmacophores. For instance, the peptide transcript called the "cocaine- and amphetamine-regulated transcript (CART)"[1] might be a good example.

Not to say that you personally haven't had different experiences with the substances. There's just substantial chemical/physiological overlap between the substances while there's much less demographic/prescription/intended-effect overlap.

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaine_and_amphetamine_regulat...

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#214

Post by scott_s »

dworrad wrote: post #211
scott_s wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on how much rest you're getting inbetween your intervals. If the rest is short enough that your heart rate never goes back down to normal, then you're also working your aerobic capacity. When I train jiu-jitsu, I do several rounds of live rolling. Usually something like 4 6-minute rounds with a minute rest inbetween. The hard part of live rolling is the anaerobic part: quick spurts of high intensity. How f…

You can run easily because your placate threshold has been significantly increased... doing sprints won't improve your aerobic capacity to any great degree... just ask Usain Bolt

My point is that I am training both, even though my anaerobic capacity is the real determinant of the outcome. But inbetween bursts, I am still active, just at low to moderate levels, and this occurs over a long period of time.

If your sprint workouts involve sprints with very light jogging inbetween then you will work both.

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#215

Post by etrain »

michaelochurch wrote: post #204
Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked for a couple of the bigger law firms in the UK and I've never come across drug use (of this type). Drugs may enable and perpetuate this behaviour today, at least in some countries, but I don't think there's much of a case that they caused it. At least if they did it arose in places like the UK without that assistance. From my experience the root is far simpler - greed. They dangle the possibility of partn…

They dangle the possibility of partnership with all it's attendant wealth and status in front of the bright young things and watch them scrap it out and burn out. It used to be that about 5% didn't make partner. It was like getting fired-- in the 1970s, when that itself was rare. It was harder to get an associate position, but once you were in, you were solid. Also, work hours were not at the extreme that they are no…

> That's because some really evil, greedy fucks got in charge and realized they could replace partnerships with overworked, churn-and-burn associates.

Or could it be that there are way too many lawyers being produced every year and the realities of a highly competitive market have set in?

http://flustercucked.blogspot.com/2010/07/40-years-of-lawyer...

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#216

Post by Tyrannosaurs »

michaelochurch wrote: post #204
Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked for a couple of the bigger law firms in the UK and I've never come across drug use (of this type). Drugs may enable and perpetuate this behaviour today, at least in some countries, but I don't think there's much of a case that they caused it. At least if they did it arose in places like the UK without that assistance. From my experience the root is far simpler - greed. They dangle the possibility of partn…

They dangle the possibility of partnership with all it's attendant wealth and status in front of the bright young things and watch them scrap it out and burn out. It used to be that about 5% didn't make partner. It was like getting fired-- in the 1970s, when that itself was rare. It was harder to get an associate position, but once you were in, you were solid. Also, work hours were not at the extreme that they are no…

You're right that the number who make partner has shrunk massively (and the competitiveness goes further in that being a partner is no longer as secure as it was - several of the large firms have ousted partners which would previously have been almost unheard of).

The upside (at least for those competing) is that many who don't make partner will still go on to secure corporate lawyer jobs earning six figures...

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#217

Post by dworrad »

scott_s wrote: post #214
dworrad wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can run easily because your placate threshold has been significantly increased... doing sprints won't improve your aerobic capacity to any great degree... just ask Usain Bolt

My point is that I am training both , even though my anaerobic capacity is the real determinant of the outcome. But inbetween bursts, I am still active, just at low to moderate levels, and this occurs over a long period of time. If your sprint workouts involve sprints with very light jogging inbetween then you will work both.

Many people will tell you that when you go in to "sugar burning" (approx 140bpm+) mode then you are doing very little to improve your aerobic capacity... Regardless of your heart rate being lower at certain points. Read about Mark Allen's (Ironman champion) experiences with this. To train your aerobic system you need to start in the aerobic zone and stay there religiously. IMHO

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#218

Post by powermeat »

thelogos wrote: post #161

A large part of the blame lays on her. IMO adderall's mechanism is much more severe on neurons than methylphenidate. It's very well proven that amphetamine/methamphetamine increases the level of free dopamine in the cytosol which are prone to auto-oxidation to quinones. This wreaks all sort of havoc over the long-term. Methylphenidate(ritalin) and its stereoisomer stay cleanly outside the presynaptic neurons and only…

I noticed my tolerance to adderall going up. I did a 4 day juice fast and now I'm a lightweight again.

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#219

Post by kragen »

loeg wrote: post #134
JohnBooty wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha. I'm afraid to look like I'm asking for my own recreational purposes, but what doses would that be? Again, this is anecdotal and doesn't prove anything, but when I've taken too much Adderall at once I haven't found it very pleasant at all. It wasn't fun and nothing about those dosages made me want to repeat the experience, much less experiment with even higher dosages. (For me, "too much" would be taking 15mg in…

> Haha. I'm afraid to look like I'm asking for my own > recreational purposes, but what doses would that be? GP here (separate work/home accounts). Anecdotally, I get a mild high from 10 mg of dextroamphetamine or adderall, and have experimentally taken as much as 30 mg. But I have zero tolerance; I've taken amphetamines less than ten times in my life. > Again, this is anecdotal and doesn't prove anything, > but when…

> I don't even try to use amphetamines for productivity anymore because they don't clear from my system fast enough to avoid interfering with my sleep.

Some people have told me that they prefer cocaine to amphetamine specifically for this reason: its metabolic half-life is something like two hours, if I recall. Have you tried using cocaine instead? I'm not sure if the toxic side effects are more or less severe; maybe you know.

(Myself, I stay far, far away from the entire family of stimulants. The most I take is caffeine, and then only in the traditional drink forms, not in pill form.)

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#220

Post by throwaway54-762 »

kragen wrote: post #219
loeg wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Haha. I'm afraid to look like I'm asking for my own > recreational purposes, but what doses would that be? GP here (separate work/home accounts). Anecdotally, I get a mild high from 10 mg of dextroamphetamine or adderall, and have experimentally taken as much as 30 mg. But I have zero tolerance; I've taken amphetamines less than ten times in my life. > Again, this is anecdotal and doesn't prove anything, > but when…

> I don't even try to use amphetamines for productivity anymore because they don't clear from my system fast enough to avoid interfering with my sleep. Some people have told me that they prefer cocaine to amphetamine specifically for this reason: its metabolic half-life is something like two hours, if I recall. Have you tried using cocaine instead? I'm not sure if the toxic side effects are more or less severe; maybe…

I wouldn't want to try and use cocaine to focus. While I've tried it once, I don't like the typical routes of administration, the lack of quality control, and financially, supporting the drug cartels.

The only drug I use regularly is caffeine, also (coffee) =).

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