Is there any benefit to still having multiple rendering engines out there? Should IE move to webkit? Firefox? Should prefixes now be -ms-webkit and -opera-webkit so browser makers can still innovate?
Opera moves to WebKit
211–220 of 295 posts
Re: Opera moves to WebKit
#212After reading some comments here I come to the conclusion that (too) many web developers are just a bunch of opportunistic ignorant hypocrites. On the one hand they repeatedly state that constantly expanding variety of HTML9 technologies[1] is THE best thing that could have ever happen to the Internet and that there is nothing worse than mono culture . On the other hand they do not seem to be willing to even consider…
Developers did not drive this, users did. I don't develop off what I like but what my analytics tell me.
Re: Opera moves to WebKit
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
This comes up every now and then. That code makes perfect sense . You write octal numbers by prefixing them with a zero, the same way you write hexadecimal numbers by prefixing them with a '0x'. strtol("06", NULL, 8); //6 strtol("08", NULL, 8); //0 Is C bad? Should Kernighan and Ritchie feel bad?
No, because strtol gives you the ability to see that the parse failed and where. You chose to give it NULL there, but you could choose to use the function correctly. You can't do it correctly in the javascript and PHP cases. In the PHP case, it is actually just a bug in the PHP codebase that octal digits are supported at all, and they don't use strtol correctly. Note that perl, python and ruby all support octal digit…
> You can't do it correctly in the javascript ... case
Sure you can. Read the Fine manual: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/JavaScript/Referenc...
tldr: parseInt("08", 10);
Re: Opera moves to WebKit
#214As someone who has used Opera for over ten years - probably 15 - and still does, Opera has become an awful browser over the last year or so. Opera used to be superior to other browsers, because it offered a full feature solution - a perfect alternative to Firefox - and it is still the only browser with native tab stacking. It also used to be the fastest browser for people with an assload of active tabs (hell, the onl…
10+ years here too. Recently forced to switch because it's gotten so bad. Maybe if they aren't working the render engine they will have more time to work on performance.
Re: Opera moves to WebKit
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, because strtol gives you the ability to see that the parse failed and where. You chose to give it NULL there, but you could choose to use the function correctly. You can't do it correctly in the javascript and PHP cases. In the PHP case, it is actually just a bug in the PHP codebase that octal digits are supported at all, and they don't use strtol correctly. Note that perl, python and ruby all support octal digit…
> You can't do it correctly in the javascript ... case Sure you can. Read the Fine manual: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/JavaScript/Referenc... tldr: parseInt("08", 10);
We're not talking about parsing in base 10, we're talking about parsing in base 8. I need to be able to tell if the parse succeeded or not, silently hiding errors is bad. The correct behaviour demonstrated in perl and python:
$ perl -le 'print 07'
7
$ perl -le 'print 08'
Illegal octal digit '8' at -e line 1, at end of line
Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors.
$ python -c 'print 07'
7
$ python -c 'print 08'
File "", line 1
print 08
^
SyntaxError: invalid tokenRe: Opera moves to WebKit
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's all in the interpretation. I saw nothing passive aggressive about what he said. He just stated his opinions (and what I believe to be many facts too) in a very mater-of-fact way. There's a difference between that and passive aggressive. As far as Opera goes though, you both have a point. If you really want to drill down into the data then your argument stands but generally speaking, without being oh so concern…
Not passive aggressive? >the browser that nobody cares about >Now they see Chrome is going to win Implies that Opera never innovates or has anything interesting to offer, and implies that instead they follow the market leader like-for-like. They were one of the first browsers to have tabs and supported many CSS3 properties without prefixes first. Just because they didn't support WebSuperFlySpeedySocketRockets the day…
No, they're literally copying Chromium. They're forking the source tree and including it as the rendering engine in their browser. That is a verbatim copy. There's nothing wrong with that, and I think it's a smart move and does not speak anything less of Opera (in fact it speaks probably a lot more), but it is a copy.
Before, Opera "copied" Trident by implementing the same quirks so pages behaved the same way. They were not standards compliant, and Trident was not standards compliant. Trident failed at certain implementations, and Opera deliberately failed at those same implementations to achieve the desired effect.
Re: Opera moves to WebKit
#217After reading some comments here I come to the conclusion that (too) many web developers are just a bunch of opportunistic ignorant hypocrites. On the one hand they repeatedly state that constantly expanding variety of HTML9 technologies[1] is THE best thing that could have ever happen to the Internet and that there is nothing worse than mono culture . On the other hand they do not seem to be willing to even consider…
Developers did not drive this, users did. I don't develop off what I like but what my analytics tell me.
IMHO that would only be true if you consider 'web developers' as 'users' of technologies. Actual 'end-users' usually don't care what technology was used, as long as they can use the website/tool without any hassle.
Re: Opera moves to WebKit
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Their rendering engine was a massive piece of original IP. How can it be worth anything when the competition is free?
If it runs faster, with less memory, or is easier to port to new platforms that the other browsers have problems reaching. Do you remember how long it took Google to port Chrome to Android? There was a Firefox and Opera release for Android even before Google got their own browser ported to their own OS.
>>There was a Firefox and Opera release for Android even before Google got their own browser ported to their own OS.
That's why I installed opera on my phone. It works so good, I never bothered to install chrome on it. So it looks like I'm an Opera user. Granted I still use chrome/FF on everything else...
Re: Opera moves to WebKit
#219After reading some comments here I come to the conclusion that (too) many web developers are just a bunch of opportunistic ignorant hypocrites. On the one hand they repeatedly state that constantly expanding variety of HTML9 technologies[1] is THE best thing that could have ever happen to the Internet and that there is nothing worse than mono culture . On the other hand they do not seem to be willing to even consider…
Yup! After all, web developers are individual people with their own opinions, not a monoculture. It's not hypocritical when different members of a group hold contradictory opinions. But if you open your mind a little, you'll also see that the two opinions can also be totally compatible, just dependent on the context. For example, expanding "HTML9" (ha!) can be great for exploring, prototyping, experimenting , where a…
While only >10%-share browsers can be worth commercially developing for
In other words, ideally, there would be a "polyculture" in innovation and experimentation,
that would constantly funnel into a "monoculture" in actual final standards.
E.g. replacing JS with some other language would be such a new alternative. Open-Source-Lua-Presto, imagine that! ;)
Re: Opera moves to WebKit
#220As someone who has used Opera for over ten years - probably 15 - and still does, Opera has become an awful browser over the last year or so. Opera used to be superior to other browsers, because it offered a full feature solution - a perfect alternative to Firefox - and it is still the only browser with native tab stacking. It also used to be the fastest browser for people with an assload of active tabs (hell, the onl…
Not that I disagree with your post, especially the rel="next" part, but I wonder what the problem with syncing is when using chrome & signed into a google account? ... it does the job well for me over 4 or so devices.
It switches between not pushing the syncing at all (I never managed to get bookmark sync working on iOS) and garbling my bookmarks in all sorts of folder and file tree permutations.
It's entirely possible that I have lost bookmarks to this, but I wouldn't know from the utter clusterfuck of it all.
Speaking of rel="next", it is an incredibly sad state of affairs that sites such as Daring Fireball can't even be bothered to use it, just because other browsers aren't using what is so obviously a treasure to web browsing. Opera even wanted to use this for swipe left-right navigation on touch-based devices as evidenced in a presentation years old now.