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U.S. Attorney Carmen Ortiz Issues Statement on Aaron Swartz Case

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Re: U.S. Attorney Carmen Ortiz Issues Statement on Aaron Swartz Case

#211

At no time did this office ever seek – or ever tell Mr. Swartz’s attorneys that it intended to seek – maximum penalties under the law. The absolute dishonesty of this statement has only further convinced me that firing this political appointee to prevent her from further harming citizens is the only appropriate action for our government to take.

You have any proof for your statement? This 35 year (or 50 year) thing mentioned in many blogs might be questionable. To be frank I feel myself a bit fooled by this information, reading yesterday that 6 month have been proposed to Swartz. When talking about things as serious as death, we seem to assume that every information is depicted really carefully, but this is far from being true.

It's very well covered in the previously linked article by Orin Kerr

http://www.volokh.com/2013/01/16/the-criminal-charges-agains...

> Why are you hearing that Swartz faced 35 or 50 years if it was not true? First, government press releases like to trumpet the maximum theoretical numbers. Authors of the press releases will just count up the crimes and the add up the theoretical maximum punishments while largely or completely ignoring the reality of the likely much lower sentence. The practice is generally justified by its possible general deterrent value: perhaps word of the high punishment faced in theory will get to others who might commit the crime and will scare them away. And unfortunately, uninformed reporters who are new to the crime beat sometimes pick up that number and report it as truth. A lot of people repeat it, as they figure it must be right if it was in the news. And some people who know better but want you to have a particular view of the case repeat it, too. But don’t be fooled. Actual sentences are usually way way off of the cumulative maximum punishments.

Re: U.S. Attorney Carmen Ortiz Issues Statement on Aaron Swartz Case

#213
Ortiz is simply trying to undo the damage she has already done.

Well, Ortiz, lemme tell ya sumthin' -- it ain't gonna work.

First of all, the statement reeks of PR tinkering. When every single source points to Ortiz and her cronies pursuing maximum sentences and intimidating Swartz, she comes out with a sorry excuse of an apology that denies it. Also, the 6 months plea deal would be only under one condition, and that is if Swartz acknowledged everything that the gubmint charged him with, which was still a major tarnish to his rep. So what did Swartz do? He had integrity and stood up for what he believed in, and then Ortiz pushed on with defiance. I recommend watching this YouTube video -- seems like Swartz' position is eerily similar to the other protagonist's (and if you haven't watched the movie, you simply must): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKAxnB6Ap4o

If only Aaron had Al Pacino standing up for him...

By the way, this isn't the first time Ortiz has been a major pain in the neck. A quick Google for "Tarek Mehanna" should be enough to affirm the opinion that Ortiz is a tyrant.

Re: U.S. Attorney Carmen Ortiz Issues Statement on Aaron Swartz Case

#214
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How often does a judge overturn a plea bargain? That's what temphn is referring to when talking about a guarantee of 6 months.

Almost never does a plea get overturned by a judge.

Just happened in my small town. Mayor got caught falsifying documents in previous city job. Pled guilty, agreed to fine + resignation. Judge threw that out, added 15 days in jail. Mayor didn't resign till the DA filed suit to enforce the law.

Much popcorn was consumed watching theatrics in town of 1k people.

Re: U.S. Attorney Carmen Ortiz Issues Statement on Aaron Swartz Case

#215
post #101
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These two links will clear up a lot of misconceptions you seem to have about this case. http://www.volokh.com/2013/01/14/aaron-swartz-charges/ http://www.volokh.com/2013/01/16/the-criminal-charges-agains...

Kerr does a textbook analysis of the facts, ignoring the particularities of this case. Not one but three (!) lawyers picked up Aaron's case, and all three failed to reach a plea bargain -- clearly the prosecution was more "motivated" than usual. Given this fact, the fact that in these circumstances a bargain is not actually binding for the judge, and the other fact that there was no interest in keeping Swartz happy p…

You seem to be implying that if the prosecution doesn't offer a deal you like, you should just keep hiring new lawyers until they make a better offer. Sounds like a get out of jail for $(cost of X lawyers) card.

Re: U.S. Attorney Carmen Ortiz Issues Statement on Aaron Swartz Case

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The statement says as much: "Ultimately, any sentence imposed would have been up to the judge". However, it's a little bit of a stretch to say that the prosecutors were seeking 30 years from the statement (there may be other statements that give information to the contrary).

The prosecutors piled charge upon charge. If they didn't want 30 years, why pile on so much? If they wanted 6 months, they could have stuck with a charge whose sentencing wasn't so extreme.

They pile on charges so that they have options. They will throw every possible thing they can think of at you and all they need is a couple things to stick and they have their win. They can drop some during negotiations to appear to be working with you. If they come at you with one single charge, you have a greater chance of finding some technicality that gets you out of it. Defending yourself against one accusation is far easier than defending against 10.

Re: U.S. Attorney Carmen Ortiz Issues Statement on Aaron Swartz Case

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One. It is a very serious mistake to deny someone the right to believe the correctness of their own opinions. Two. People use leverage. They may or may not use it rightly but they do use it. Anyone who cannot set their opinion of the justice of that to one side, and get on to the business of the contest at hand, is not cut out for politics. Such people enter these contests at a great disadvantage and risk getting hur…

> If you think an attorney able to rise to the position US Attorney will be caught in a "falsifiable claim" on a matter of this prominence then you simply do not understand what you are talking about. Some choice samples: Nixon: I'm not a crook. Oliver North lying to congress and many many others besides. Officials at all levels make falsifiable claims all the time and sometimes they trip themselves up. Ortiz is unde…

Maybe, but they don't make ones that can be proven via a simple email. They do it when they think there's a very real chance they'll not be caught.

Re: U.S. Attorney Carmen Ortiz Issues Statement on Aaron Swartz Case

#218
So maybe people don't realize but there is a chart that is used for determining possible sentence for any given set of charges. I have seen this work sheet in process. The charges are listed. And there is a book (or document or something like that.. I forget) that explains the max jail time and fine for all these charges. and then there are "special circumstances" for some charges that can add on to the sentence. So if you have a list of 10 charges and you go through each one and examine the special circumstances and tally the whole thing up... you get you maximum (potential) sentence. That does not mean that is what will be sought. That does not mean that is what you will get. That just means that is the max you face.

Re: U.S. Attorney Carmen Ortiz Issues Statement on Aaron Swartz Case

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you think an attorney able to rise to the position US Attorney will be caught in a "falsifiable claim" on a matter of this prominence then you simply do not understand what you are talking about. Some choice samples: Nixon: I'm not a crook. Oliver North lying to congress and many many others besides. Officials at all levels make falsifiable claims all the time and sometimes they trip themselves up. Ortiz is unde…

Maybe, but they don't make ones that can be proven via a simple email. They do it when they think there's a very real chance they'll not be caught.

Actually, email was exactly what tripped up Oliver North.

Even getting rid of incriminating emails is worse than keeping them for inspection. North and John Poindexter (sp?) exchanged emails, deleted them when they realized they were in hot water and those emails were subsequently recovered.

Re: U.S. Attorney Carmen Ortiz Issues Statement on Aaron Swartz Case

#220
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ortiz today: and they recognized that his conduct – while a violation of the law – did not warrant the severe punishments authorized by Congress and called for by the Sentencing Guidelines in appropriate cases. Ortiz on 9/2012, adding 9 counts to the conduct that we learn "did not warrant...severe punishment": http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/09/aaron-swartz-felony... Federal prosectors added nine new felony cou…

I generally agree with your analysis, however you will find that lawyers disagree on the threat assessment. A prosecuting lawyer always says "these are the charges [specific charges] which carry a maximum sentence of [worst possible sentence]" and rarely (and never that I can find for first time convictions) are those maximums given. The implication in the press, and denied now by Orbitz, is that she told Aaron's law…

Empty words from Carmen Ortiz, and quite Orwellian indeed. Adding 9 felony counts just about proves that the prosecutors were NOT measured in their approach. Whatever MIT's responsibility, it doesn't diminish how wrong the behavior of Ortiz et al was.
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