Why aren't smart people happier? (2022) • Hacker News Board

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#211

Post by Itanu » Fri, Aug 21, 2026, 5:59 AM UTC

annzabelle wrote: post #159

__mharrison__ wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you have preferred another label? If so, which one? Asking because...

Not really sure. The ADHD/"Gifted"/Twice Exceptional labels were even worse. I really wish my parents had made sure to always praise effort more than they praised me for the exam scores I got without studying. There was more focus from them on the final exam grade than on the process of showing my effort to the school system, and it created a sense of pride in how lazy I was. I guess, don't praise your kids for lucky…

Wow the pride in laziness really resonates with me. I had exactly the same thing, and still suffer for it now I think. If someone scored better than me on the test - oh well, they studied for it and I didn't, so I'm still better than them really.

It ingrained a sense that trying hard and working on things to get a result is less valuable than being able to simply achieve the result without effort. The problem is, nothing in the real world is really achievable without consistent applied effort. I could dunk on my peers by focusing for 45 minutes on a test, and this taught me that was all that's required to outperform.

Obviously I've gained a bit more self awareness to be able to see this now, but it's still my gut reaction - to take pride in "intelligence" and dismiss "effort".

After uni in the real world it was a brutal reckoning. Sit me down in an office with a task that requires more than 45 minutes of concentrated output, I'm useless. I got an ADHD diagnosis and the amphetamines help for sure, but I still don't know if I really have a condition, or I just grew up conditioned to be lazy.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#212

Post by Itanu » Fri, Aug 21, 2026, 6:13 AM UTC

dosisking wrote: post #200

SamPatt wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one of the only real downsides of apparent intelligence that I've seen: people in positions which exist to be supportive tend to assume you don't actually need their help. Which, comparatively, might be true. But just because someone else needs more help doesn't mean it wouldn't be welcome. Parents, teachers, advisors, supervisors, they just let you figure it out because they know you can, and they need to foc…

> I didn't need to worry about finding a job, smart people always find work. People don't like to hire people who are smarter than them. They want to hire people who are obedient and competent. If you are too smart, the government will probably put you in prison, if you challenge the status quo and are not obedient.

Sure, McDonald's probably doesn't want a hyper-intelligent fry cook. But in almost any intellectual line of work, there is a high-impact, high-ceiling place for truly intelligent people - as long as they also have sufficient work ethic and social skills to back it up. (social skills optional if the other two are high enough). And they will never struggle to find a job.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#213

Post by Lerc » Fri, Aug 21, 2026, 6:22 AM UTC

nico wrote: post #109

annzabelle wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got labeled "smart but lazy" at a pretty young age (high test scores, didn't do any homework), and I let that label stick with me for far too long. I took some pride in how I could get the top score in a class without studying, and didn't realize that studying itself was a useful skill. I let this whole mindset drag me down through undergrad (especially once I hit the point where I really ought to have studied), an…

Sometimes accountability is not enough. Medication and therapy might help, as it can be the case with ADHD. Many people with it fit the pattern of “smart but lazy”

I have come to wonder if lazy actually exists as a thing in it's own right. I too had the 'smart but lazy' label, was diagnosed with ADHD past the age of 50.

One of the things I noticed was when people talk about "Sometimes you just have to knuckle down and do the thing you don't want to do". That was an ability that just came and went with me, the same task one day would be "Right I had better do that thing now" and I could do it, another day, even the idea of it seemed impossible. The fluctuations were clear enough to show that it wasn't a moral failing, or just me doing the things I wanted to do. The same thing in the same situation was just so radically different. I can see how people who have only experienced the easy side could fail to understand the difficulty, I don't think night and day would do it justice.

ADHD is quite highly correlated with depression, one of the main hypotheses of why is because people with ADHD have grown up being told that the thing that is intrinsically them is a bad thing to be. A hypothesis of why not everyone with a genetic predisposition for depression becomes depressed is because there might be a form of feedback loop that makes things that make you feel bad make you feel more bad. Being critical of ADHD behaviour is an easy on-ramp to that feedback loop.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#214

Post by sublinear » Fri, Aug 21, 2026, 6:24 AM UTC

GMoromisato wrote: post #208

bittercynic wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a single and childless person, I don't like the implication that those are marks of a less fulfilling life. I know some people married with kids who seem very happy and fulfilled, and some profoundly miserable and trapped. I may be missing out on some good things, but I'm also avoiding some extreme misery, and generally do feel content and fulfilled.

The thing about having children is that you absolutely cannot know what it's like until you actually have them. And then, of course, it's too late. I'm convinced that I would have been happy without children. I would have lived a wonderful life, maybe with a spouse, maybe alone, traveling the world, working on my interests, and generally doing whatever I wanted to do. You don't miss what you never had. But now that I…

> you absolutely cannot know what it's like until you actually have them

While it's less common now, I don't think anyone who grew up in a bigger family under one roof could agree with that. Nothing divine is gatekeeping this experience. It's the socioeconomic climate we've created doing that.

It makes perfect sense that you value your family so deeply, but you might want to reconsider where you anchor your pride. It's a lot of responsibility. Unexpected things can happen.

I'm extremely grateful to have examined all stages of life on a daily basis before even going to college, but I think having kids is a heavy choice. It's perhaps the heaviest choice of all. Since there's no mystery in it for me, I'm still enjoying being unchained.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#215

Post by ohmahjong » Fri, Aug 21, 2026, 6:30 AM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #138

annzabelle wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got labeled "smart but lazy" at a pretty young age (high test scores, didn't do any homework), and I let that label stick with me for far too long. I took some pride in how I could get the top score in a class without studying, and didn't realize that studying itself was a useful skill. I let this whole mindset drag me down through undergrad (especially once I hit the point where I really ought to have studied), an…

> I got labeled "smart but lazy" at a pretty young age (high test scores, didn't do any homework) Same experience here. I could find just about anything else I wanted to do except homework. Spent all night coding many times. Went to school and aced all the tests, skipped all the homework, did not get good grades as a result. My dad actually arranged a visit with a psychiatrist who did an official IQ test (wooo! I'm a…

What does real happiness look like to you?

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#216

Post by Itanu » Fri, Aug 21, 2026, 6:36 AM UTC

fn-mote wrote: post #99

paulpauper wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a blog post. Unless you're reading Gwern or something, you shouldn't expect a really deep comprehensive take on an issue this ill-defined. I mean what does happiness mean? Its hard enough to get people to agree on that.

The point is that not all blog posts are worth reading. This one mixes up enough truths and ideas that it doesn’t go anywhere interesting.

Well, I found it both interesting and worth reading, sorry that you didn't.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#217

Post by sublinear » Fri, Aug 21, 2026, 6:43 AM UTC

xyzelement wrote: post #139

I think being smart universally trumps being less smart - but the definition of smart needs to be more encompassing. For example take the stereotype of a brilliant man or woman who neglected family for career, and are forever single and childless forever -- while someone less brilliant just "ends up" with a family and ultimately more fulfilled in life. Superficially this is an example of an average person being happi…

> they were more able to follow family patterns and advice while the "brilliant" person tries to figure out everything from scratch, not able to benefit from the "well trodden paths" that are available

You know, sometimes the well-trodden paths are chains worth breaking man. Most families aren't exactly The Brady Bunch.

I think we agree that it takes all kinds of people, but you are mischaracterizing what it means to spend a little more time alone before committing to a family. That time will pay dividends when/if they go for it.

I gotta invoke Hanlon's Razor on this one and refrain from elaborating on what I think your comment sounds like. It's a sign of the times we live in that even this can become a hot political issue.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#218

Post by n0on3 » Fri, Aug 21, 2026, 6:48 AM UTC

phyzix5761 wrote: post #193

I've learned that the more intelligent you are the more models you know and the more trust you place in them being actual reality vs just being models. This leads to overconfidence in things being a certain way so when life calls for flexibility, your rigidity will make you suffer. Cynicism develops from this rigidity. Additionally, the more intelligent you are the more skilled you become at thinking about things log…

> _An intelligent person can convince themselves of anything_

I think it might be just the opposite: convincing yourself of things relies on exploiting limits for which very intelligent people have much higher threshold they might as well not have them. When it comes to happiness, it’s kind of a superpower which I think very intelligent people just don’t have because it fights against their intelligence by definition. It’s also something that I think happens unconsciously.

It’s ironic, as you yourself provided a perfect example: a logic argument depending on unproven assumptions, if it lands in “convincing” yourself, exploits a limitation in accounting for the validity of the assumptions themselves (meaning: you believe it anyway). Assuming one could pick and choose the arguments (i.e., what to believe in) wouldn’t that trivially unlock happiness?

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#219

Post by penguin_booze » Fri, Aug 21, 2026, 6:53 AM UTC

I first came upon this phrase from the movie 'Liberal Arts' (quoting some religious text):

For in much wisdom is much grief. And he that increaseth knowledge, increaseth sorrow.

Re: Why aren't smart people happier? (2022)

#220

Post by brailsafe » Fri, Aug 21, 2026, 7:04 AM UTC

annzabelle wrote: post #163

brailsafe wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am now and have in the past been in this sort of position, albeit not with an existing completed degree under my belt, just a simple one-year continuing-ed diploma and years of sporadic career experience. I went back to attempt to complete my CS degree on the basis that I figured I already had learnt most of what I would learn anyway and might as well both prove to myself I can do it, as well as get the credential…

I did take a one off course at a local college a couple years back and was able to do well (had a 95% average all semester) and get all my homework done. It was, however, a subject I found fascinating. On the other hand, my work performance severely suffered that semester and I got my first poor performance review. Over the years, I've come to the conclusion that stimulant ADHD medication isn't for me. It worked well…

That may be true, or maybe you need to try some other things, including different medications and different pursuits.

Fwiw, I've been taking Concerta 27mg since being diagnosed. Haven't really felt much of a need to experiment with others, but full-on depression is a rarity for me, perhaps helped by investing heavily in my social and physical life. The only time I get jittery is when I accidentally drink as much coffee as I would on a non-medicated day, so I have to be a little careful with that. It's a very mellow, long-acting, subtle effect that is most noticeable when I'm trying to flow through a conversation or imagine things, which I think I'm better at on non-medicated days, but am okay with the temporary tradeoff. Overall, it's not magic, but it helps keep me on track. Higher doses have been slightly unpleasant and I've dropped back down.

I think what's become more clear to me over time is that I really shouldn't try to live like the stable careerists around me and on HN who have different kinds of parameters for success, yet have what I'd describe as immensely boring unhealthy or obsessive vanity-oriented lives. I'll never have a house, and I may never hold a job for 2 full years, but I can push myself to the top of a mountain, make friends and keep them in my thirties, and maintain a strong lean physique. The most difficult thing is figuring out how and where to apply myself when I have a blank slate professionally. I don't and will never speak like a manager, and yet my conduct with juniors in a recent role seemed to be welcomed and appreciated, before they threw me under the bus for some inane issue and fired me.

I say this mostly because although life is difficult, isolating, and ambiguous at times, to be comfortable in ones own skin means coming to terms with the things you do well, having humility, being open, ambitious, and authentically grateful for what that brings you (without depending on explicit praise or reciprocation, because it may never come from what you'd hope). You must be able to throw your own parade sometimes, be proud of the floats you can put together, and happy about whoever was able and willing to show up.

On this site there's constantly a vibe of "what should I be doing", but fuck that, do whatever you need to do and then let yourself do what you want to do; take some time, figure it out, let the nebulous sense of guilt subside, because it's not good for much.