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Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

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Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#211

Post by Alive-in-2025 »

burnte wrote: post #175
TimTheTinker wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many bureaucracies in history have behaved in deeply misanthropic ways, especially when led by misanthropic leaders? Don't underestimate the power of the desire to keep one's job to cause a large organization to behave towards its own self-perpetuation despite the moral lines that must be crossed by individuals to do so.

> How many bureaucracies in history have behaved in deeply misanthropic ways, especially when led by misanthropic leaders? Lots! > Don't underestimate the power of the desire to keep one's job to cause a large organization to behave towards its own self-perpetuation despite the moral lines that must be crossed by individuals to do so. I don't. I don't put anything past people.

Yes, lots, look at the current US government.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#212

Post by Alive-in-2025 »

philipallstar wrote: post #185
cyanydeez wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

more and more it seems like he's referring to billionaires more or less.

That's because you've had years of consuming media that blames everything on billionaires.

well, plus the evidence of billionaires pushing for things that aren't that great after all. Maybe good for their bankroll though.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#213

Post by saghm »

ioasuncvinvaer wrote: post #41
saghm wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> given past scars around Java and copyright How many of these were self-inflicted?

Does it matter?

I guess that depends on whether you think the motivations matter. When it comes to a policy on a hot-button issue that seems like it could easily be enforced selectively, I don't think it's a stretch to be concerned about whether the one who crafts and enforces the policy for a project that's supposed to be open having a track record of being the cause of the issues supposedly that make the policy "sensible".

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#214

Post by saghm »

rwmj wrote: post #42
saghm wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> given past scars around Java and copyright How many of these were self-inflicted?

Intentional rather than self-inflicted.

Not sure how common this understanding of the terms is, but to me, those terms don't seem conflicting.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#215

Post by Alive-in-2025 »

criddell wrote: post #184
SR2Z wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, your claim is "LLM generated code is not copyrighted." His claim is "LLM generated code is eligible for copyright."

My understanding (belief) is that it's going to depend on how much human involvement is there. If you write a prompt and one-shot a problem and share the source code, that source code is probably not covered by copyright. If you substantially edit or modify the generated code you would own the copyright. It's like with a camera. If I set a camera and carefully aim it and somehow trigger the shutter then make adjustme…

I think if I as a human use an llm to do something technical that would qualify copyright, it should still qualify for copyright. How do you decide how much human is copyrightable. If I use a package that writes code or use a library for some piece of it, I could still copyright.

I don't like this idea that llm code can't be owned by a human, copyrighted. It's just code.

I think your last example with flock camera is relevant here - I can take a picture of a public football as a reporter or something (or a fan I guess) and I can copyright and sell that picture. Newspapers do it every day.

So if I stand on a street corner and take a pic, it's copyrightable. If I take a pic using a flock camera it should also be copyrightable, just like if my nest camera at home takes a pic of something, I can use that.

I guess you are saying "someone else owns the flock camera" so you don't get to own pictures. What if I buy the flock-like camera and put it up, I should own that.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#216

Post by derdi »

ux266478 wrote: post #164
ncruces wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why on earth would I ever want to use SQLite if I have access to a sufficiently advanced code generator which can generate me a similarly high quality database system Because SQLite has 10k requirements that wouldn't even cross your mind to write down, but 80% of which are useful to you.

The nice thing about natural language is that nesting semantic layers is free and arbitrary, and far more tractable than in a formal grammar. Every natural language is like coherentist ω-order logic. Effectively, I don't have to write the 10k requirements. I only need to provide a sufficient metatheory that can be extrapolatable to those 10k requirements, and that can include embedded theory I did not write myself bu…

Not sure what this is a parody of, but it's hilarious, thank you. Keep it up!

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#217

Post by prmoustache »

ghaff wrote: post #55
eddieroger wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, Oracle historically has a very chill, almost laissez-faire point of view on licensing.

That's hilarious. Why do you think ZFS isn't more broadly adopted in Linux?

You should send your sarcasm detector for revision.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#218

Post by Alive-in-2025 »

dan_q wrote: post #58
jknoepfler wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's just pause for a second and steep in the irony of "we're all in on AI, except where there are visible consequences." The same problems that bedevil AI-written PRs here bedevil AI-written PRs at my place of work. I'm sure it'll get better eventually, maybe, but something something Pareto principle.

> The same problems that bedevil AI-written PRs here bedevil AI-written PRs at my place of work. >I'm sure it'll get better eventually, maybe Why would it get better?

We'll just get used to it and the problems won't seem so bad, even if they are. To bring it all back, it's just like using oracle software in your enterprise, after a while you forget how awful it is to work with them.

Re: Oracle bans AI-generated code from OpenJDK

#219

Post by runjake »

skinfaxi wrote: post #188
TimTheTinker wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Do not fall into the trap of anthropomorphizing Larry Ellison. You need to think of Larry Ellison the way you think of a lawnmower. You don't anthropomorphize your lawnmower, the lawnmower just mows the lawn - you stick your hand in there and it'll chop it off, the end. You don't think 'oh, the lawnmower hates me' - lawnmower doesn't give a * about you, the lawnmower can't hate you. Don't anthropomorphize the lawnmo…

Who does this metaphor serve? To me it seems to try to legitimize the actions as a force of nature.

It's a twist on the Scorpion and the Frog story.

In other words, Larry Ellison is going to do what Larry is going to do, and there's no use wondering why.

Usually, that's to make money and sue people, at any expense. It's in his nature.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog

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