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Germany Records Historic 12B KWh Solar Feed-In in July 2026

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Re: Germany Records Historic 12B KWh Solar Feed-In in July 2026

#211

Post by throwaway2037 »

spwa4 wrote: post #200
throwaway2037 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are no good alternatives to coal as the stabilizer in a renewables-fed grid, for Germany. Why not natural gas?

From different perspectives: 1) political: the only economical natural gas comes from Russia, which means it's a betrayal of Ukraine (especially after the many German, and worldwide promises not to do so) Obviously that hasn't stopped Germany. Neither the promises nor the betrayal aspect. Hasn't stopped Spain either. 2) physical: the lines got bombarded, so Germany does not have physical access to Russian gas ("kinet…

Ok, overall, this is a pretty good reply. My only issue is this part:

    > Coal is 750g-1000g CO2 per kWh, but less than half that (ie. 300g per kWh with carbon capture, which is widespread in Germany).
The last part is definitely not true. I did some research. Germany has no commercial coal-fired power plants operating with carbon capture and storage (CCS), and CCS is not widespread in the German power sector.

Re: Germany Records Historic 12B KWh Solar Feed-In in July 2026

#213

Post by tsoukase »

NKosmatos wrote: post #9

Whenever I see news like this one I feel bad for us in Greece... we have so much sun yet we don't utilize it to the maximum we could for generating electricity and our KWh price is one of the most expensive in Europe. It's a pitty the government doesn't invest in solar or encourage households to do so :-(

In Greece there is an unjustified support for natural gas. They deliberately stop renewables adoption (no more netmetering, no more batteries) because the Prime minister sleeps at the same bed with gas-people (like Mytilinaios). We have to burn gas from a few to many hours per day.

Re: Germany Records Historic 12B KWh Solar Feed-In in July 2026

#214

Post by ricardobayes »

tialaramex wrote: post #184
ricardobayes wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany's output is almost irrelevant in this context: it amounts to a mere 1.4% of the global output. To add to that: there are no good alternatives to coal as the stabilizer in a renewables-fed grid, for Germany. They don't have hydro and don't have nuclear. Even Spain now runs some coal despite having near-100% renewable grid for a year. That big blackout was a big lesson for all grid operators. Please don't shame…

> Even Spain now runs some coal despite having near-100% renewable grid for a year. In fact Spain has less coal now than it did in 2025, or 2024, or 2023 and so on. And no their grid isn't "near 100% renewable", they do have a lot more than most European countries but they have large gas imports too to run some of their conventional thermal power plants - what they're getting rid of, sensibly, is coal. There's a 4x s…

No, I agree renewables didn't cause the blackout themselves. Spain due to not having hydro power had to use renewables that were inverter-based and didn't have rotating mass to dampen any oscillations. The Entso-E report said there was a direct consequence between not having this inertia and the resulting blackout. There is absolutely nothing wrong with renewables themselves, although it also has to be said if they never used renewables or not to this extent, this event simply wouldn't have occurred.

Re: Germany Records Historic 12B KWh Solar Feed-In in July 2026

#215

Post by tialaramex »

ricardobayes wrote: post #214
tialaramex wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even Spain now runs some coal despite having near-100% renewable grid for a year. In fact Spain has less coal now than it did in 2025, or 2024, or 2023 and so on. And no their grid isn't "near 100% renewable", they do have a lot more than most European countries but they have large gas imports too to run some of their conventional thermal power plants - what they're getting rid of, sensibly, is coal. There's a 4x s…

No, I agree renewables didn't cause the blackout themselves. Spain due to not having hydro power had to use renewables that were inverter-based and didn't have rotating mass to dampen any oscillations. The Entso-E report said there was a direct consequence between not having this inertia and the resulting blackout. There is absolutely nothing wrong with renewables themselves, although it also has to be said if they n…

> The Entso-E report said there was a direct consequence between not having this inertia and the resulting blackout

That isn't what it said

> if they never used renewables or not to this extent, this event simply wouldn't have occurred

This is an entirely speculative counter-factual and so is even more useless than it appears.

Re: Germany Records Historic 12B KWh Solar Feed-In in July 2026

#216

Post by tialaramex »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #211
spwa4 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From different perspectives: 1) political: the only economical natural gas comes from Russia, which means it's a betrayal of Ukraine (especially after the many German, and worldwide promises not to do so) Obviously that hasn't stopped Germany. Neither the promises nor the betrayal aspect. Hasn't stopped Spain either. 2) physical: the lines got bombarded, so Germany does not have physical access to Russian gas ("kinet…

Ok, overall, this is a pretty good reply. My only issue is this part: > Coal is 750g-1000g CO2 per kWh, but less than half that (ie. 300g per kWh with carbon capture, which is widespread in Germany). The last part is definitely not true. I did some research. Germany has no commercial coal-fired power plants operating with carbon capture and storage (CCS), and CCS is not widespread in the German power sector.

Imagined numbers are crucial to the increasingly unhinged fossil fuel lobby. They need you to stop believing facts and listen to them explain how up is down and actually there's not a problem or if there was it's not their fault and actually they're the solution.

Re: Germany Records Historic 12B KWh Solar Feed-In in July 2026

#217

Post by tonyedgecombe »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #175
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That reminds me of my friend who wants to fly around the world to see the Great Barrier Reef before it's gone.

There is plenty to see in Indonesia at a fraction of the cost. It is almost always better value for money to scuba dive in developing countries.

The point is by getting on a plane and funding its emissions you are taking part in the destruction of something you supposedly value.

Re: Germany Records Historic 12B KWh Solar Feed-In in July 2026

#218

Post by spwa4 »

tialaramex wrote: post #216
throwaway2037 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, overall, this is a pretty good reply. My only issue is this part: > Coal is 750g-1000g CO2 per kWh, but less than half that (ie. 300g per kWh with carbon capture, which is widespread in Germany). The last part is definitely not true. I did some research. Germany has no commercial coal-fired power plants operating with carbon capture and storage (CCS), and CCS is not widespread in the German power sector.

Imagined numbers are crucial to the increasingly unhinged fossil fuel lobby. They need you to stop believing facts and listen to them explain how up is down and actually there's not a problem or if there was it's not their fault and actually they're the solution.

Ahhh, right. I get it. You are now "part of the unhinged fossil fuel lobby", because the Green party in Germany and it's adherents:

1) have a 20 year history of increasing fossil fuel use, and on a dozen occasions, when choosing between a nuclear compromise and more CO2, systematically choose "no compromise!"

2) technically part of 1, but so serious it deserves it's own point, when this decision turned out in 2014 to be far more disastrous than initially expected, the Greens doubled down choosing to warm the climate further

3) Again, technically part of ... but after 2023 and the "kinetic sanctions" in 2024, progressively worsening with now also the Iran war making it worse, the Green's decision is responsible for not just massively worsening Germany's CO2 output but doing so WHILE causing a doubling of energy prices.

4) this total lack of willingness to compromise guarantees yet another fight over global warming in parliament. The Green's party actual politics are: grandstanding and demanding HUGE compromises "in the name of global warming". In reality the tactic is different: they cause big problems, everywhere (nothing on the scale of the nuclear closure, but you'd think they would compromise to ease the effect of the factory closures. The opposite is true). They do this so there's fights, and they appear to be "fighting for global warming". The opposite is closer to the truth.

5) this then caused emergency reactivation of coal power plants ... no objection of the Greens and even a further statement that they WILL NOT COMPROMISE ... okay.

And there's "a lobby" because everyone else points out ... but Green policy, and their total lack of willingness to compromise is responsible for half of Germany's CO2 output, and now $other_party has to compromise to fix that? WTF? Of course the answer? "The lobby is unhinged". Because we all know further Green party policy will only lead to further disaster (for example further destroying the auto industry [1]).

The only thing the Green party sees is a chance for more votes. You will not catch them doing any sort of discussion about policy, or the policy's effects. Just shouting about how necessary it is, fight, distract, obstruct, sabotage. Shout, shout, shout. And every adult in the room realizes what the situation is, but adults don't vote Green in the first place, work in factories, and will soon be fired and unemployed anyway.

I just don't understand how you a political party can be that deeply evil, playing on pure identity politics, willing to damage everything, the climate, the environment, society and politics JUST to get votes and power.

[1] https://www.gruene.de/artikel/merz-draengt-eu-kommission-und...

Re: Germany Records Historic 12B KWh Solar Feed-In in July 2026

#219

Post by tialaramex »

spwa4 wrote: post #218
tialaramex wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagined numbers are crucial to the increasingly unhinged fossil fuel lobby. They need you to stop believing facts and listen to them explain how up is down and actually there's not a problem or if there was it's not their fault and actually they're the solution.

Ahhh, right. I get it. You are now "part of the unhinged fossil fuel lobby", because the Green party in Germany and it's adherents: 1) have a 20 year history of increasing fossil fuel use, and on a dozen occasions, when choosing between a nuclear compromise and more CO2, systematically choose "no compromise!" 2) technically part of 1, but so serious it deserves it's own point, when this decision turned out in 2014 to…

Very amusing that you don't even snip the "Chat GPT" attribution off that link.

Yes, the LLM can invent elaborate fantasies for anybody who will listen to it, but everybody actually lives in the real world. In the real world Germany decreased fossil fuel use in its production of electricity both proportionally and in total as you can see in the data.

None of what you wrote addresses the very obviously bogus original claim, probably because to do that you'd have to understand that facts are true which is confusing if you're just generating plausible nonsense.

Re: Germany Records Historic 12B KWh Solar Feed-In in July 2026

#220

Post by ricardobayes »

tialaramex wrote: post #215
ricardobayes wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I agree renewables didn't cause the blackout themselves. Spain due to not having hydro power had to use renewables that were inverter-based and didn't have rotating mass to dampen any oscillations. The Entso-E report said there was a direct consequence between not having this inertia and the resulting blackout. There is absolutely nothing wrong with renewables themselves, although it also has to be said if they n…

> The Entso-E report said there was a direct consequence between not having this inertia and the resulting blackout That isn't what it said > if they never used renewables or not to this extent, this event simply wouldn't have occurred This is an entirely speculative counter-factual and so is even more useless than it appears.

Yes, I see that now. That excerpt I took paraphrasing a google summary which apparently used a youtube video as its source. But I see it now it's not true, thanks. However I do stand by the part where I said if renewables were never used this likely wouldn't have happened - even though, as you say, it is a useless argument.
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