Live data from Hacker News

The early hiring funnel is now breaking on both ends

hbr.org

211–220 of 223 posts

Re: The early hiring funnel is now breaking on both ends

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI and remote interviewing have definitely exacerbated the problems that existed before though. Leetcode was always weak, but now that it is easy to cheat on it is a negative selector, because the cheaters do best. Leetcode was originally supposed to be done in-person on a whiteboard to assess a candidate's collaborative problem solving skills, but with remote interviewing it has evolved into writing passing code wit…

Yes. People are gatekeeping. They are not interviewing with the aim of having an interesting conversation. They are trying to block hiring.

I agree they don’t want someone good who will be competing with them and they don’t want someone junior who will require more hand holding

Re: The early hiring funnel is now breaking on both ends

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Standard and expensive (in terms of time and money) for both the company and the applicant

FYI companies should be reimbursing travel expenses for this travel. As a candidate it's worth clarifying to confirm so you don't get some oddball startup trying to force candidates to pay their own travel, but every big company travel interview will be expenses paid down to your travel to/from the airport and the meals you eat along the way. The time commitment is real, but on-site travel is almost always reserved f…

Yes the company should be spending that money but it's still an expense that somebody has to pay and should be counted if we're thinking about the system; it doesn't disappear just because you personally agent spending it. And that still leaves travel time which can't be literally reimbursed (only figuratively in money)

Re: The early hiring funnel is now breaking on both ends

#213
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the secret: it's still just gambling. Elon musk isn't a trillionaire because he brought something special to the table; it's because he was able to perform the martigale enough times and he arbitrarily reached the top. Hiring is exactly the same thing, even when trying to do it on merit, people are simply poor judges of character, ability and the rest. Most of society is governed by people who simply kept gett…

There’s certainly luck involved, but it’s not random. Why aren’t there more Elon Musks? It’s not like the universe just picks a rando every 1000 years and it’s Elon Musk now and Mansa Musa last time. I think similarly, there are random elements but hiring is not random. People aren’t randomly successful or not. There are many factors, most based on individual decisions and group alignments, I think.

you have survivorship bias tinted glasses. 1000's of elons tried and failed to keep flipping the coin.

Re: The early hiring funnel is now breaking on both ends

#214
post #31

As an engineer working on my company’s top of funnel it’s tough. Currently we’ve switched to a short (15-30m) technical problem that we hand grade before candidates get a call. Async technical challenges are obviously gamed but you’d be surprised at how few people both cheat + take longer than 3m to submit the solution

Are you picking a problem candidates can easily cheat on? Could Claude produce the answer in 30 seconds? If so, what's the test actually measuring?

The setups I've seen produce the strongest signal aren't the ones where the candidate can't see the answer that AI produces easily. They're the ones where there is no single answer. Architecture decisions. How you would investigate an outage. How you would tradeoff one constraint against another. The candidate can spend an hour with Claude on it beforehand and it doesn't matter, because the test isn't "did you get the answer," it's "can you talk through the reasoning" and "can I trust your judgement."

Hearing someone explain their thinking on an open problem is a much harder thing to fake. Even if they used an assistant to structure their initial pass, the live unpacking reveals where the thinking is theirs and where it isn't.

Re: The early hiring funnel is now breaking on both ends

#215
post #90

as someone who has done 100+ first round interviews for SWE, including new grad zero signal: resume & cover letter. applicants will mass-apply with ai-tuned resumes that happen to perfectly match our listing medium signal: top 15 school / top N internship experience / built something with paying users highest signal: personal referrals

Could you be overlooking great candidates who didn't go to top school or have a personal referral, yet have the skills and would be great to work with? I've worked with many engineers who fit that category.

Both of those signals reflect prior selection by someone else. Admissions committees, your network's hiring choices. Those signals also correlate with class, geography, and network access.

I'm not saying that referrals and schools don't predict. They do. But no referrals and no top school doesn't necessarily mean a candidate isn't a fit. The more AI advances, the greater the need for a new signal.

Re: The early hiring funnel is now breaking on both ends

#216

Are there any battle-tested strategies for hiring that are generally known to be good, but aren't often used because it's hard or doesn't scale? Asking because my business is growing and we've gotten lucky with our hires so far, but I'd like to add my discipline to hiring well.

I like the other comment regarding asking people you know or have hired for referrals. But there's a separate question about what to do when you don't have any referrals to rely on.

In the past, the answer was to rely on recruiting experts and your own experience to analyze resumes, and to hope that some fraction of your time interviewing was well spent. But as others in this thread have pointed out, the quality of resumes as a signal is rapidly decreasing with AI. So now the question is what the new signal should be.

The purpose of hiring is really just to understand three things: (1) can the person do the job, (2) will I and the rest of the team want to work with them for the foreseeable future, and (3) are there any red flags. The latter two are assessed in interviews or backchanneling. But the first, "can this person do the job," is the one that has gotten much harder to tell from the resume alone.

What does "can the person do the job" even mean in the era of AI? For SWE, a lot of teams are still leaning on outdated coding challenges that test the ability to write code by hand (quality, organization, efficiency, speed) and the direct knowledge held in someone's head (vocabulary, concepts, tools). But what we actually need to test for is much more nebulous: thought process, judgment, knowing what questions to ask, taste, context switching, and how the candidate does all of this with AI effectively. Traditional coding challenges (where you prohibit cheating as much as possible) get at some of this, but they're no longer the optimal solution. They're an old comfortable solution being applied to a more modern, complicated problem.

I said this in another comment in this thread, but the best thing to do is offer an open-ended question. One that doesn't have a concrete answer, and one they're free to answer however they wish. Like a Turing test, 5 minutes at most is enough. Want to use AI? Great. Want to curate your answer? Great. Ask them to architect something. Describe a bug and ask if it should be fixed. If they think it should, ask how they'd approach debugging. Or ask about a technical decision they've made that they're not sure was right, and have them make the case for the other choice.

The same approach works in other domains. For sales, have them sell to someone in a specific scenario. For marketing, ask about a campaign they didn't like and what they would have done differently. For accounting, ask about the most common problems they've run into with clients and internal stakeholders, and how they handled those situations.

The goal is to get them talking on video for 2 to 5 minutes about something real that matters to the role. And whenever they put in the effort to do this, give them transparency. Let them know you've personally received it and will watch it. Follow up with an actual response out of respect for their time, even if the answer is no.

To anyone worried about the time this takes: (1) it immediately weeds out low-interest candidates, (2) I'd rather watch a few-minute video than do a 30-minute phone screen based on a resume alone for someone who's obviously not a fit, and (3) multiple stakeholders can watch the same video and form a baseline for their own follow-up interviews. It makes the rest of the process better, not worse.

Re: The early hiring funnel is now breaking on both ends

#217
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A policy I started to adhere to a while back was never take a job somewhere that doesn't invest at least as much time & energy into interviewing you than you are with them. If they expect me to put in a bunch of effort and they're putting in 0, that's a hard no.

Even if they also put in the effort, doesn't mean it's worth it. When interviewing for a FAANG, I had 13 hours of video call interviews with different people ranging from HR to managers of different teams. I was then invited to fly over to the US for formal interviews, where I had 3 days of interviews with different teams, about 5 hours each day (not helped by the fact that they had 3 teams interested in me, and they…

For sure. Though at that point I think it's fine by the standard I was flagging. They invested a ton of time & money into vetting you, so even if it was absurd it at least required them to have skin in the game. So I wasn't even asking that it always feel worth it to me personally, just that we're both roughly equally invested in the process.

To your last point, while I'm not a fan of standardized interviewing this is one of those bits that's points strongly at standardized interviewing being a good thing.

Re: The early hiring funnel is now breaking on both ends

#218

> “There is a growing gap between the candidate’s written persona and their live presence. I’ll see a cover letter that is poetic and a résumé that is flawlessly structured, but then the person on the video call struggles to explain their own bullet points. This has always been a problem: Candidate applies with an amazing resume but then flails when you ask them questions or “can’t remember”. I can remember a few int…

[dead]

Re: The early hiring funnel is now breaking on both ends

#219
post #119
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s certainly luck involved, but it’s not random. Why aren’t there more Elon Musks? It’s not like the universe just picks a rando every 1000 years and it’s Elon Musk now and Mansa Musa last time. I think similarly, there are random elements but hiring is not random. People aren’t randomly successful or not. There are many factors, most based on individual decisions and group alignments, I think.

Imagine you have a coin-flipping tournament with a large number of people - perhaps even billions. 2 people face off in rounds and the winner advances. By the end someone will have won all their rounds. Is this person skilled or lucky?

Your experiment is not life.

Re: The early hiring funnel is now breaking on both ends

#220
post #215
post #90

as someone who has done 100+ first round interviews for SWE, including new grad zero signal: resume & cover letter. applicants will mass-apply with ai-tuned resumes that happen to perfectly match our listing medium signal: top 15 school / top N internship experience / built something with paying users highest signal: personal referrals

Could you be overlooking great candidates who didn't go to top school or have a personal referral, yet have the skills and would be great to work with? I've worked with many engineers who fit that category. Both of those signals reflect prior selection by someone else. Admissions committees, your network's hiring choices. Those signals also correlate with class, geography, and network access. I'm not saying that refe…

100%, if someone from a no name school does well on the interview I’ll happily recommend them to be hired. However idk how HR filters resumes, and they likely use certain heuristics to try and minimize false positives
Post reply on HN