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Electric motors with no rare earths

renaultgroup.com

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Re: Electric motors with no rare earths

#211

Post by irishcoffee »

carefulfungi wrote: post #158
irishcoffee wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was my whole point actually, the wear and tear is really minimal if you get regular oil changes. Things don’t just break and need replacing. Tires, rotors, brakes, those wear out. The tires are not cheap, rotors and pads aren’t crazy expensive and super easy to DIY. What other wear and tear things are expensive?

Owned a BMW. Had the audacity to use non-BMW windshield washer fluid. The fluid sensor broke; because in a BMW it’s a fancy sensor that is only compatible with specific washing fluids. Sums up my experience with that car. It was nice to sit in, though.

So you didn’t RTFM? Or ignored it?

Re: Electric motors with no rare earths

#212

Post by _kulang »

Maxion wrote: post #89
_kulang wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a near-doubling of energy loss - probably a healthier way to understand it when the efficiencies are all 90%+

Funnily enough if enough of that energy loss (heat) can be scavange, this wouldn't be nearly that bad for us living up here in the cold.

Thermodynamically, heat is waste energy. EVs are so efficient that scavenging isn’t practical anymore; I’m not sure the temperature gets high enough to usefully extract the heat energy for heating. ICE cars obviously produce mostly heat so getting a radiator hot enough to heat the cabin is very easy

Re: Electric motors with no rare earths

#214

Post by adev_ »

whazor wrote: post #124
adrian_b wrote: post #120

Unfortunately, their Web page does not say a single word about the important problems of their motors. The electrically excited synchronous motors have been known forever, but they had not been used in EVs because of 2 disadvantages. The first is that traditional EESMs require brushes, i.e. sliding electrical contacts, which are worn out by friction, so such motors require frequent maintenance for changing the brushe…

Not sure how familiar you are with Renault, but “maintenance problems” pretty much sums up a lot of older Renaults.

> maintenance problems” pretty much sums up a lot of older Renaults.

It was in the 2000s but not anymore.

If you go to eastern Europe, specially in the Balkans, you will see a lot of taxi drivers with Renault with milages over 500k km. They do hold the space with the usual Toyota Prius.

The current brands in the EU with bad reliability issues are Stellantis with infamous Puretech engine. And BMWs, not so much for the reliability aspect, but due to the stupidly high service costs.

Re: Electric motors with no rare earths

#215

Post by taffydavid »

halper wrote: post #201
wolfi1 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

150kkm - wouldn't that be 150 Mm?

Yes, you are correct. As the SI brochure states: "Compound prefix symbols, i.e. prefix symbols formed by the juxtaposition of two or more prefix symbols, are not permitted." Unfortunately, almost no one uses SI units and/or prefixes correctly.

I have another alternative: you could simply prefix the km with ,000

Re: Electric motors with no rare earths

#216

Post by bibelo »

wolfi1 wrote: post #196
adev_ wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> such motors require frequent maintenance for changing the brushes. "Frequent" is all relative. The Renault Zoe, 10y ago, was already using a synchronous engine with wired rotor. And most were going over 150kkm without any issues nor brush changes. > because the electrical currents that circulate through the rotor windings must generate heat Currently stator heat in wired synchronous engine is less a problem than in…

150kkm - wouldn't that be 150 Mm?

it's also 150 000 000 meters

Re: Electric motors with no rare earths

#217

Post by benj111 »

adrian_b wrote: post #120

Unfortunately, their Web page does not say a single word about the important problems of their motors. The electrically excited synchronous motors have been known forever, but they had not been used in EVs because of 2 disadvantages. The first is that traditional EESMs require brushes, i.e. sliding electrical contacts, which are worn out by friction, so such motors require frequent maintenance for changing the brushe…

>Losing a few percents in efficiency is an acceptable compromise for avoiding the use of expensive and supply-constrained chemical elements.

Is it? A 1% decrease in efficiency means increased fuel costs for the user. Acceptability should be based on the long term costs v short term savings to the customer.

It's this myopic, Thinking from the pov of the company, that leads to enshittification. I don't think we should be unquestionly accept that pov.

Re: Electric motors with no rare earths

#218

Post by benj111 »

ErroneousBosh wrote: post #204
adrian_b wrote: post #120

Unfortunately, their Web page does not say a single word about the important problems of their motors. The electrically excited synchronous motors have been known forever, but they had not been used in EVs because of 2 disadvantages. The first is that traditional EESMs require brushes, i.e. sliding electrical contacts, which are worn out by friction, so such motors require frequent maintenance for changing the brushe…

> electrically excited synchronous motors So hold on, their amazing technological innovation is... a washing machine motor?

Worked for the Sinclair C5

(Yes I know it wasn't a washing machine motor....)

Re: Electric motors with no rare earths

#219

Post by ErroneousBosh »

benj111 wrote: post #218
ErroneousBosh wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> electrically excited synchronous motors So hold on, their amazing technological innovation is... a washing machine motor?

Worked for the Sinclair C5 (Yes I know it wasn't a washing machine motor....)

It wasn't far off...

Re: Electric motors with no rare earths

#220

Post by hackrmn »

userbinator wrote: post #38

A historical pioneer in the complex technology of electric motors without magnets Those who know the history of electric machines will find the title and verbiage very amusing. Motors with no permanent magnets were the first practical ones, and at this point wound-rotor motors are over a century old. It's worth noting that some of the biggest motors have always been designed this way, because the size of magnets requ…

Verbiage? What about the _nounage_?
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