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Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

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Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#211

Post by impossiblefork »

hhjinks wrote: post #192
tastyface wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for anyone else, but as a Christian, it's really quite simple: any death that you help cause is a black mark on your soul. Maybe you can repent for it, someday. But it's not something that will just be let go when the day of reckoning comes. Incidentally, I'd feel the same way about killing someone in self-defense.

I thought accepting and believing in Jesus as Lord was all you needed to enter heaven? John 6:40 (KJV) 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

If you believe something, that will obviously have consequences on your actions, so there's obviously no inconsistency between the verse you quote and what he said.

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#212

Post by watwut »

gordian-mind wrote: post #166

"I am also a European academic. That means the current US government has become hostile to me" Such a bizarre claim. EU academics seem under mass psychosis lately.

US government is openly hostile to Europe. The Greenland crisis was only few months ago. Before and after that, it was just a stream of insults and attacks.

To be fair, US government was OK with Orban and tried to help him stay in power. It is OK with authoritarian far right movements and is trying to help them too. But, if you are pro-democracy European, US is a hostile country trying to destroy your democracy.

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#213

Post by QuantumNoodle »

Looks like he updated his "About me" section

> At the moment, my main focus is [...] fighting against (governmental or corporate) mass surveillance

While he always had "Ethics in Computer Science” as an interest, I wonder what blinds people into accepting offers at Google -- the advertising company. I want to take his words as sincere, but Google has been privacy violating for longer than his tenure with android. Money and prestige is a hell of a drug I suppose. He could very well work for grapheneos but no money or immediate persteige there (sadly).

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#214

Post by impossiblefork »

rayiner wrote: post #128
hintymad wrote: post #123

Personally, I don't get why people blindly reject any collaboration with the military. I understand that they are pacifists, but I still don't get it. When I look at history, I see so many tragedies caused by being weak. Both Germany and the Soviet Union were able to invade Poland, for instance, and the Katyn massacre is a national scar. And who wouldn't want to defeat invaders like Genghis Khan? Have you ever heard…

It's because Americans and many Europeans under the shield of the U.S. military and have never in their lives felt a moment of fear about external threats.[1] They never have to meaningfully confront the central fact of their existence: that they enjoy a vastly disproportionate share of the world's bounty in a way that would be impossible without overwhelming military power. I suspect people living in say Ukraine don…

In EU countries where war with Russia was seen as possible, for example, here in Sweden that is not the case.

The military preparations this fear leads to take a very special form though: investment in actual defence, commitment to stay behind and fight in case on an invasion, that sort of thing.

Obviously working on defence technology is part of this, but it also shapes the direction of the defence technology you work on. Sweden's forces have looked rather different from forces that intend to conduct offensive wars, especially historically. Tanks specifically designed for conducting ambushes are one example. Artillery emplacements designed to sink invasion fleets and to resist direct nuclear attack are another.

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#215

Post by QuantumNoodle »

gordian-mind wrote: post #166

"I am also a European academic. That means the current US government has become hostile to me" Such a bizarre claim. EU academics seem under mass psychosis lately.

While EU is actively trying to erode encryption and privacy of all digital communications.

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#217

Post by pyb »

QuantumNoodle wrote: post #213

Looks like he updated his "About me" section > At the moment, my main focus is [...] fighting against (governmental or corporate) mass surveillance While he always had "Ethics in Computer Science” as an interest, I wonder what blinds people into accepting offers at Google -- the advertising company. I want to take his words as sincere, but Google has been privacy violating for longer than his tenure with android. Mon…

To me, Google switched the "Evil bit" around the time of the Dragonfly debacle (2018)

If OP is only seeing the problems now, they must have been selectively blind.

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#218

Post by tmoertel »

UncleMeat wrote: post #153
tmoertel wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What other things did he do to make you believe he was “kind of unhinged”? I know about the memo thing, but I think it was covered in an inflammatory way because the press loves to play up a controversy. What else besides the memo incident did he do that merits his firing?

Damore had been aggressively arguing about this stuff internally for some time in advance of his doc. The doc was consistent with a pattern of "makes a huge stink of things in every training and refuses to back down."

Okay, here's what I still don't understand. Were the things he was “making a huge stink about in every training” true or false? Reports at the time claimed that he was ”perpetuating harmful stereotypes,” but other reporting claimed that he was pointing out facts that inconveniently challenged the cultural orthodoxy and then wrote the doc to clarify his feedback, and so he became a target for internal activists. Are you aware of any specifics that would allow a reasonable person to lean one way or another as to the reality?

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#219

Post by tim-star »

QuantumNoodle wrote: post #216

I want to see more of "I'm rejecting this offer to work for Google bc my moral compass" not from folks who are paid out and ready for the next thing already.

its funny how long some people wait to decide the company they work for has lost their moral compass. "dont be evil" is already 8 years dead at this point.

Re: Why I'm Forced to Say Farewell: Google Management Has Lost Its Moral Compass

#220

Post by impossiblefork »

hintymad wrote: post #123

Personally, I don't get why people blindly reject any collaboration with the military. I understand that they are pacifists, but I still don't get it. When I look at history, I see so many tragedies caused by being weak. Both Germany and the Soviet Union were able to invade Poland, for instance, and the Katyn massacre is a national scar. And who wouldn't want to defeat invaders like Genghis Khan? Have you ever heard…

Presumably they reject it because they see the military used offensively?
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