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Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

theguardian.com

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Re: Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

#211

Post by cameldrv »

Retric wrote: post #109
coryrc wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The numbers for 2014-2024: https://www.eia.gov/electricity/annual/table.php?t=epa_03_01... I doubted what you wrote, but everything you said is correct (for the last 10 years, at least). Over the time period, natural gas increased 740 TWh/year (to 1870) and coal decreased 940 TWh/year (to 650). Electricity production is up ~7%, but that's quite low compared to the growth of everything else. > This administration swap…

Plenty of blame to go around, my understanding of the timeline is: Trumps first administration put in solar Tariffs with China (25%), Biden administration increased them with China (50%), 2nd Trump administration increased those and applied solar Tariffs to other countries. Though honestly I’ve largely stopped paying attention at this point. Solar adoption increased through all of that.

I think the issue is that the tarriffs just don’t really matter anymore because the panels are so cheap that they’re dwarfed by the “balance of system” costs — installation, racking, inverters, cabling, etc.

Re: Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

#212

Post by computerdork »

TremendousJudge wrote: post #67
computerdork wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. But one factor is China is also greatly reducing their emissions. For instance, their pollution levels have plummeted after enacting strict controls: https://epic.uchicago.edu/insights/china-has-quickly-and-sha... Still, that is a good point, a lot of the emissions from manufacturing have been shifted to other countries.

>China is also greatly reducing their emissions Are they? because looking at these charts[0], although fossil fuel use as a percent of total energy may be going down, the absolute values for coal, gas and oil only go up year over year. [0] https://ourworldindata.org/profile/energy/china#what-sources...

Ah, right. Yeah, I've been reading about their incredible decrease in pollution overall, and not on just their C02 emissions. Didn't know these had still been rising over the years, and it's really only in the two years have these been falling too. Still, amazing turn around.

Re: Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

#213

Post by m463 »

tolciho wrote: post #189
SoftTalker wrote: post #4

This is more from a lot of coal power plants being converted to gas over the past 20 years than solar overtaking the outputs of those power plants. Coal output shrinking, solar output rising, the lines have crossed. Coal is unpopular in all but a few areas where coal mining is still a part of the local econonmy. I used to work near a coal plant and every day I'd go out to my car and it would have little black particl…

> have little black particles all over it. Nobody likes that, no matter what the President says. Should you live near one of those big noisy "freeway" things you may note the little black particles over everything in the surroundings but nobody likes to tear down the interstate.

I think the freeways are going from larger particles to smaller ones as DEF gets rid of the bigger diesel particles.

smaller stuff is more dangerous and goes deeper into your body:

- PM10: inhalable dust entering the nose and mouth.

- PM4: respirable fraction that can reach the gas-exchange region.

- PM2.5: fine particles that penetrate deep into the lungs.

- PM1: ultrafine particles with potential to translocate beyond the lungs.

Re: Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

#214

Post by 9dev »

mbgerring wrote: post #180
KennyBlanken wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s also from focused efforts to close coal plants, For many years coal has been more expensive than solar and wind. That's why utilities are decommissioning the plants.

It’s true, and the strategy of climate activists in the early 2000s and 2010s was to do everything they could to make coal and other fossil fuels as expensive as possible: by reducing access to capital, increasing the cost of legal and regulatory hurdles, sometime delaying projects through physical blockades, etc etc.

Which was the best possible strategy they could have taken.

Re: Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

#215

Post by larodi »

pornel wrote: post #207
wavemode wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who still even views this as a conservative/liberal issue, is someone who is in the pocket of the fossil fuel lobby. Solar is simply a very cheap and realiable way to generate electricity. Much cheaper than gas and coal nowadays. Pure economic incentive is going to continue to drive its adoption.

As someone from another continent, I giggle when I see doomsday-prepping anti-govmint fiercely-independent cowboys hating EVs and loving gas. Gas has a 6-month shelf-life, and is attached to a whole geopolitically volatile military-industrial complex. Meanwhile an EV + solar can be actually self-sufficient and last for a decade or two. A realistic Mad Max would have been EV battles over solar panels.

this’ the other Max from China, where they be scavenging leftover panels. The Mad Max we know surely happens somewhere else, and perhaps near Texas given all the participating parties…

Re: Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

#216

Post by ZeroGravitas »

dpkirchner wrote: post #192
KennyBlanken wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's especially notable because there isn't just the thumb against offshore wind, solar panel tariffs, and even EVs. Chinese EVs can't be imported because of tariffs and many conservative states a pretending that EV drivers "don't pay their fair share because they don't buy gas" - except most gas taxes haven't been adjusted in multiple decades and don't even begin to pay for the cost of maintaining roads. Fuel taxes…

Unfortunately this is one of the few cases where both sides are close to the same -- they both chose to heavily tariff foreign EVs. Something to remember when Democrats talk about climate change.

"closer to the same" except one side has consistently promoted the building and sale of EVs in America.

If you were feeling generous you could credit then with the entire existence of modern EVs given their support of the nascent industry for decades in California.

But sure, let's focus on the mote in Democrat eyes and ignore the insanity across the aisle. That's what got us into this situation, so why stop now.

Re: Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

#217

Post by anakaine »

Retric wrote: post #109
coryrc wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The numbers for 2014-2024: https://www.eia.gov/electricity/annual/table.php?t=epa_03_01... I doubted what you wrote, but everything you said is correct (for the last 10 years, at least). Over the time period, natural gas increased 740 TWh/year (to 1870) and coal decreased 940 TWh/year (to 650). Electricity production is up ~7%, but that's quite low compared to the growth of everything else. > This administration swap…

Plenty of blame to go around, my understanding of the timeline is: Trumps first administration put in solar Tariffs with China (25%), Biden administration increased them with China (50%), 2nd Trump administration increased those and applied solar Tariffs to other countries. Though honestly I’ve largely stopped paying attention at this point. Solar adoption increased through all of that.

As a foreigner it just seems.so braindead that the administrations would tarrif solar panels. The US doesnt have a great manufacturing capacity for solar panels compared to established manufacturers. The high cost of new production ensures slow uptake.

From a place that embraced solar rebates, and has subsequently benefited from having in place solar battery rebates, we have a thriving industry of solar installers, electricians, and an ever increasing amount of local grid energy security in the event that storms or accidents cause supply disruptions. About 5% of households will likely not see an energy bill for the next 20 years. Another 40% have solar that covers daytime energy requirements.

The requirement for baseline coal.and gas has been decreasing - though will not completely abate.

I live in a state that produces abundant coal for power and steel. We have decreased our carbon emissions to 35% below 2005 levels.

Re: Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

#218

Post by mcmoor »

_carbyau_ wrote: post #205
gimmeThaBeet wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sort a "broken clock right twice a day" thing, but I agree with not doing offshore wind in the US. The divergence immediately follows in that I wish they would just push onshore wind. It's sort of a circular issue, it's madly expensive because we haven't built a lot and aren't super good at it, and we don't get much of it built because we aren't great at it and it always is ludicrously expensive. The US has a un…

I think the idea of offshore wind is nice. There is a lot of ocean out there and by putting the "ugly" (I don't mind them.) turbines out of sight we get the best of both worlds. But the realities of the idea - the engineering - is problematic. The ocean is a harsh environment and maintaining something deliberately put out of the way in a harsher environment is far more expensive.

There are a lot of ocean, but limited shores. I guess that's the only economical place to build it, but of course it blocks scenery. If people truly built it in open ocean, less people will complain.

Re: Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

#219

Post by thewhitetulip »

oblio wrote: post #167
cardiffspaceman wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

West Asia is a less Eurocentric than “Orient” or “Middle East.” I like it.

LOL "Asia" is a Greek name, fully Eurocentric. The entire continent doesn't even make sense. Geographically, sure, culturally, absolutely not. It should either be Eurasia or probably about 5 different continents (South of Himalaya aka Indian subcontinent, North of Himalaya aka Siberia + Central Asia + China + South East Asia, South of Caucasus + Kopet Dag aka Middle East, etc).

But the correct term is West Asia and not middle east

(I live here and yet I didn't know it until this was shown as West Asia war on the news)

Re: Solar generates more energy in US than coal for first time

#220

Post by tancop »

leonidasrup wrote: post #186
rtkwe wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's part of what's notable about this. The administration hasn't been able to reverse the trend despite putting a massive thumb on the scale against projects like offshore wind and tariffs on solar panel imports. There's probably a delay in the effects though since projects started before they took office are probably starting to thin out and finish up. We'd have to look into the permitting of new projects…

Tariffs on solar panel imports should stimulate domestic solar panel production, but only when they are high enough and applied long enough to justify investments into new solar panel manufacturing facilities.

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