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The Last Technical Interview

steve-yegge.medium.com

211–220 of 291 posts

Re: The Last Technical Interview

#211
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Provisional employment does not work. It requires candidates to leave their jobs before they know whether they have a secure job with your firm. I concede that provisional hires are higher-signal than work sample testing (or rather: that they're the platonic ideal of work sample testing), but the entire problem of hiring qualification is to make decisions in the context of a candidate doing a job search .

>> Provisional employment does not work. It requires candidates to leave their jobs before they know whether they have a secure job with your firm. It works. I’ve seen it in two different places. At the second one, the fundamental realization I came to was that it is virtually no different than “regular” employment, where the new employee can get fired for not meeting expectations within an arbitrary time period afte…

I’m curious though… these days I’ve to apply for n number of jobs to get 1.

Let’s say I get someone to do this provisional work. What about my existing job? I can’t just ignore it, and I can’t just causally say at my current company that I’m interviewing anywhere else.

And god forbid you like 2 potential gigs, and they both want you to do the campfire approach. Then my current job is really screwed!

Re: The Last Technical Interview

#212
This just generally over-estimates whether you can "measure" good work on scale, and make your org produce more of it. Google didn't manage to measure and predict its own employees' work [0]. Even with 6 months probation – the default in Germany – it's just guess work.

If you want good employees, poach those that others are paying millions already.

[0] https://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/28/magazine/what-google-lear...

Re: The Last Technical Interview

#213
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point was that this perspective is not lost on the author of that article, as he directly addresses it.

He addressed it as “job market is in such a bad shape, so perhaps even seniors won’t have any other option”, which might be true, but is sad nonetheless.

It’s awfully convenient for old heads who enjoyed the insane run up of the last decade and a half that are in plush situation to then say “oh it might suck for you now, too bad!”

Good for you to make all the hay when the sun shone? Fuck the future generation, let’s make it even harder for them with these insane interview ideas.

Re: The Last Technical Interview

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was being facetious, sorry if that wasn’t clear. That’s just how Regular Employment works. You don’t even need to tell the employee the implications of being on the 90 day plan. You tell them up front what the expectations are for the role, and if they don’t meet them in 90 days, you fire them. Does not need to be more complicated than that. 30/60/90 is pretty standard stuff. It’s literally the documentation and ju…

> You tell them up front what the expectations are for the role, and if they don’t meet them in 90 days, you fire them. In the US at least, firing people for cause is difficult to do. More likely you just wait for next RIF and include your low-performers on the list. So, yes, this is business as usual to some extent, but it's not a very cost effective or efficient way of hiring. If you really have work that needs doi…

Limited sample size but I've not worked anywhere in the US that didn't have a 90 day carve out for terminating people from date of hire, MegaCorp or SMB.

Of course it's not cost effective, or efficient, but as the article points out, nothing really is, and this method is at least preferable to the weird quasi-employment situation the article proposes

Re: The Last Technical Interview

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question, tell me what you think of using IQ tests to hire SWEs? Should we just do that instead?

Why not do that for all jobs. Forget resumes and work experience/accomplishments, and just hire based on a test score? Perhaps we could administer this IQ test at age 12, so that the low-scoring individuals can go straight into the fast-food industry, and the rest can pick between the doctor/lawyer/SWE offers that will be showered upon them?

From what I understand, this isn’t so far from what Germany does with their secondary schools

Re: The Last Technical Interview

#217
post #5
post #2

I couldn't find the text of this joke, attributed to Dirac. I'll paraphrase. A man walks into a pet store. There's a parrot for $100, it says this parrot speaks perfect English . The one next to it is $1,000, and says, This parrot speaks 12 languages fluently. Then there's a bedraggled looking, droopy, parrot, and its label simply says One Million Dollars. Does it sing opera and has successfully run for President? th…

There’s an old Malcom Gladwell podcast episode, I think the show was Revisionist History, where he says he’s an interview nihilist. As long as the person seems reasonably capable, and can probably do a bit of what you need, hire them. Interviews are so hard to get right that what you’re saying ends up being most effective. Edit: Didn’t link it initially because I thought it would be hard to find. Turns out it’s not.…

That sounds like a corollary of the Diamond Paradox. If there's any cost at all to price-shopping, then once you're at one store that sells the thing you want, it's usually not worth continuing to shop around.

Tangent: people do a lot of stressing out lately about which LLM they should be using for a certain task. I bet this advice applies there, too.

Re: The Last Technical Interview

#219
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately from an organizational perspective, a bad hire could cause so much damage through incompetence let alone malice, that making no hire the default unless they're a perfect cinnamon roll of a fit, is actually a good strategy.

> a bad hire could cause so much damage through incompetence let alone malice The fact that an organization cannot deal with such a case is a bigger problem in the first place. Eliminating incompetence and malice is among the basic skills of an organization.

Trying not to hire them is dealing with it. What are you suggesting?

Re: The Last Technical Interview

#220
I see this kind of “let’s make candidates work for free” proposal from time to time.

It doesn’t work for software engineers because nobody wants to do free work. Also, free work isn’t consistently, and fairly testable because project requirements can evolve or completely change over a hiring period. Not to mention IP issues.

What has worked in my experience is a synthetic take home exercise that isn’t easily LLM solvable, the same one given to all candidates with the same constraints, and offering to be available to answer their questions by email. Sometimes we can tell a lot about the candidate just from the questions they ask, or how they package the solution, without even looking at the code.

In my experience (FANG hiring) less than 10% of candidates refuse to do this exercise, so it’s worked well for us.

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