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I think it's hilarious how hopeful people were at the acquisition that Bun would be able to continue on mostly as it had been but then that all got completely thrown away and trashed. (Hilarious in the way that's terribly sad, of course.)
It usually takes years for someone's values to be thrown out the window! How long was this one?
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Deno's LLM contributions have been smaller in scope, so they're more likely to be reviewed by a human, and the codebase remains understood by its contributors. Can the same be said of Bun, which switched to an entirely different language in a single, million-line PR?[0] [0]: https://github.com/oven-sh/bun/pull/30412
Since when small vibe coded slop became the norm? Because there exists bigger vibe coded slop, it's no justification to have a smaller vibe coded slop.
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So it was possible to write ~2 million lines of (mostly) zig, but it's not possible to review ~1 million lines of rust, even though the same test suite included in those 2 million lines of zig can still be used? I'm not convinced the rewrite is a good idea and will work out, but I'm equally unconvinced by your argument.
Its possible to do that over a period of a few years. Sadly, the Rust rewrite happened in (checks notes) 8 days.
Isn't this suppose to be the most advanced model ever and you're telling me they can't just schedule a cron job that detects and repairs the zig version?
Really? Did they just completely admit that the great AI future can't secure a significant project repository?
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> Saying "because they vibe coded we are dropping support for Bun" sounds political. I don't think "political" is necessarily a bad thing. Engaging in politics is how you shape the world. The mere act of writing and maintaining yt-dlp is quite political considering the context of IP law and enforcement that we live in. It happens that in this case that I'd disagree with their politics if that's why they are dropping…
That's not what I meant by political. I meant political in the more modern sense of "appealing to emotion rather than thought". EDIT: Everyone is rightfully calling me out that this doesn't make a lot of sense. What I meant is that the move is driven by ideology. I think there is a lot of overlap between politics and ideology, and an increasing amount of overlap between ideology and emotion. But it's fair enough to c…
This decision seems to based more in politics than engineering. Have you observed Bun have more segfaults, OOMs, etc, since the Rust rewrite? Have you noticed more security vulnerabilities? Have you seen more bugs? (Of course you haven't, the rewrite hasn't even landed yet.) It seems that you are making this decision because you get a bad feeling when thinking about AI involvement. I don't select my engineering tools…
If you wait for more segfaults, OOMs and other issues, than you have failed to avoid the problem. In my opinion this direction is correct and history will show who's right.
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“... it seems unlikely he would ship this rewrite if it didn’t meet his quality bar” is every bit as vibes-based as the decision you are critiquing.
Jared has shipped a lot of things that have impressed me. His software is measurably faster than the alternatives, and I have measured it. It runs code that Node et al can't run, and I have tried. These are normal, everyday experiences with software - based in fact, not vibes. I'm not going to argue every decision he's ever made is amazing, but his decisions have historically tracked above average.
What kind of code can't node run?
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But what exactly are you projecting? Typically when people have said they have a bad feeling about something (imagine Next.js) it's because they are running into more bugs or they are seeing more production incidents. In this case there has been no chance to observe these things.
It's 1mloc that no human has seen . There is no possibility for that project to be reliable, at least initially.
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> Have you observed Bun have more segfaults, OOMs, etc, since the Rust rewrite? Have you noticed more security vulnerabilities? Have you seen more bugs? (Of course you haven't, the rewrite hasn't even landed yet.) On the flip side it's not on the yt-dlp authors to test Bun's new development process and see if it results in more segfaults, OOMs, security vulnerabilities, etc. In fact it would arguably be negligent to…
> It seems a bit unfortunate to me that they've apparently already intending to never support future releases instead of planning on re-evaluating in the future. On the other hand the yt-dlp developers definitely don't owe anyone anything. I think your final comment gets at it. If they said "OK, I am skeptical, so we're going to pause on updating to see how this Rust thing plays out" -- that sounds like a reasonable…
If they had decided to drop Bun for "AI assisted coding," that might strike me as a political decision.
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“... it seems unlikely he would ship this rewrite if it didn’t meet his quality bar” is every bit as vibes-based as the decision you are critiquing.
Jared has shipped a lot of things that have impressed me. His software is measurably faster than the alternatives, and I have measured it. It runs code that Node et al can't run, and I have tried. These are normal, everyday experiences with software - based in fact, not vibes. I'm not going to argue every decision he's ever made is amazing, but his decisions have historically tracked above average.
At the same time, his arguments in favor of Rust are sound, there is no doubt about that.
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I'm not sure what "exhibiting the behavior you are criticizing" would even mean here. BUT. "Ignore anything but actual problems" is a terrible stance to take generally for software and dependency selection. Incidents are fairly sparse, process is much easier to observe. So if you can find connections between process and incident possibility, that's a very reasonable heuristic. And it's easy to find examples of overag…
You are putting words in my mouth, I never said anything about such a stance. The vast majority of new software is written using AI. The problem is not that it is written by AI, but rather than some people treat it like a black box. It is entirely possible to use AI to write code and verify that it is correct. Even Linus Torvalds is allowing AI generated code into the Linux kernel as long as it's managed properly.
How on earth does this follow? It's common, so it should be accepted without scrutiny?
>The problem is not that it is written by AI, but rather than some people treat it like a black box.
Yes, and guns don't kill people. Obviously the issue has two facets. It would be irrational to say "AI is flawless" or "humans are flawless".
Allowing genAI code does not imply blindly trusting genAI code.
>as long as it's managed properly.
Correct. Hence the issue. This was vibe-coding by even the strictest definitions of the term. Vibe-coding is, by definition, not "properly managed".