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Why Japanese companies do so many different things

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Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#211

Post by yurishimo »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #88
ryukoposting wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll preface this by saying there are lots of other factors at play, but here's an interesting one I can speak to personally: Car culture. We're a very car-centric society, and the Japanese auto makers have been a part everyday life to 3 full generations of Americans now. Even most Baby Boomers are too young to remember a world without Honda or Toyota. Across all age groups, a lot more Americans grew up with a fondne…

> We're a very car-centric society, and the Japanese auto makers have been a part everyday life to 3 full generations of Americans now. I assume "we" are Americans. I keep writing this over and over again on HN: There are NO highly developed non-micro states that are not car centric outside of major cities. Yes, literally, Japan, outside of a few large cities, is incredibly car centric. Sure, the cars are small and c…

What? All of these companies have been major importers to the USA since the 80s or earlier. I don't see how tariffs have anything to do with how embedded Japanese electronics and cars are embedded into American culture.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#212

Post by stymaar »

> This is very different from how most wealthy countries operate. American firms, for example, tend to prioritize focus above all else

It hasn't always been like that. Western companies, including US companies, used to have lots of diversification as well (maybe not as much as the Japanese, but much more than today's companies still: not that long ago a company like IBM used to make mouses and keyboards, in addition to their photocopier, mainframe, software, and personal computer business. They even made a hydrogen peroxide analyzer in 1982![1]). They did so because it makes the company more resilient, and because in that time their shareholders wanted the companies they invested in to be resilient, to have a reasonable yield/risk profile.

Things changed in the 80s, when deregulation generate a boom in financial products. Then, individual company resilience was seen as obsolete, you'd cover your risk through portfolio diversification and all you'd want from a company was the pure yield, and companies were streamlined to make as much profit as possible, everything reducing the ratio being sold or terminated.

Fast forward 40 years, people believe it has always been like that and it must be so kind of deep cultural difference between Asia and the West.

[1]: https://web.archive.org/web/20050119055353/http://www-03.ibm...

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#213

Post by jmyeet »

jdw64 wrote: post #171
jmyeet wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My form of autism is going on deep dives into political and history topics and I'm not gonna lie, I've watched a super-long video essays on the 4B movement, neo-confucianism and the chaebols. This [1] I think was one of them. I've never been to South Korea. I'd like to go to Seoul. For me though, South Korea is a cautionary tale in what happens to a country when a handful of families get to control all the wealth, al…

I agree with most of your points. However, I can't quite agree with idealizing China completely (frankly, I don't think any government in the world is all that great). China has its own deep structural issues, such as the massive disparity between Tier 1 and Tier 2 cities, the grueling 996 work culture, and the 'Tangping' movement. That being said, I can absolutely vouch for your deep understanding of Korea.

So 996 is still a thing but the government is trying to stamp it out [1]. Tang ping is also something the government is dealing with (agree or not) [2]. One of the big problems in China right now is youth unemployment [3], which is (IMHO) related to Tang ping. That is, for a lot of young people (in the world, not just China) feel hopeless, like they have no future. This is exacerbated in China because of the gender gap (30+ million more young men than young women) as a consequence of the One Child Policy.

Young people in general aren't stupid (again, in general, not just China). They can look around and see they have limited opportunities, will probably never own a home, won't ever be able to retire, will have crippling debt (for college in the US), etc so it's natural to look around and say "what exactly is the point?" and, in some cases, just opt out. In the US you see this with things like "van life", moving to cheaper countries, tiny homes or just spending all your money on experiences because, to you, you have no future. I thin kreligion historically played a huge role in getting people to do those things anyway. But now, why would Alfred Q. Zoomer live paycheck-to-paycheck doing a shitty job just so Jeff Bezos can have slightly more money?

China at least has invested in eliminating poverty, building infrastructure (eg the high speed rail network) and transforming the lives of everyday Chinese people. Like I see Tiktoks from a rural Chinese woman who works in a shoe factory for $11/day but only really spends $1/day to live. She lives in a modern house (20+ years ago it was a rundown shack), has Internet, watches live streams, rides everywhere on an electric scooter and pays for everything digitally (of course).

Part of China's current woes are that Xi Jinping quietly just popped the real estate bubble and declared that houses are for living, not speculation. That market has been correcting itself for years ever since. But that's a long-term good.

I'll take the transformation of Chinese lives (not just in Tier 1 cities) over what's happened in coal mining country, the Rust Belt and agricultural communities in the US. It's not even close.

I suspect your information might be out-of-date because I've seen videos of tourists in Tier 3/4 cities (let alone Tier 2) and honestly it beats most US cities. There's no official list of tier cities but Chongqing is widely considered a Tier 2 city. Chongqing is widely called the "cyberpunk city" [4].

[1]: https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/society-equity/china-...

[2]: https://thediplomat.com/2026/05/why-china-treats-lying-flat-...

[3]: https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/chinas-youth-jobl...

[4]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYpbUCn2lus

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#214

Post by groundzeros2015 »

wklauss wrote: post #208
groundzeros2015 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> romanticizing the Mondragon Are they successful? Japanese culture reflects certain western attitudes which make it stand out. Do I detect resentment?

> Are they successful? I'd say so. Not on all the branches of the cooperative, but it generates over €11 billion in annual revenue and employs more than 70,000 people with a very stable business. It might be a bit tricky to gauge success when the rewards and incentives aren’t quite the same as in your typical capitalist company, though.

Looks interesting! I would like to learn more

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#215

Post by ux266478 »

com2kid wrote: post #168
ux266478 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I see plenty of idolizing of China and how it manages to solve big problems at speeds unseen This is actually a great example for extant romanticization of China. People lauding Chinese expediency in the context of industry and construction often don't realize it's almost entirely enabled by extreme underregulation and underenforcement of industrial safety standards. Chinese people themselves will often point t…

> People lauding Chinese expediency in the context of industry and construction often don't realize it's almost entirely enabled by extreme underregulation and underenforcement of industrial safety standards Kind of like Tesla's latest factories, or DR Horton building homes with massive problems from day 1? Or Silicon Valley being a collection of superfund cleanup sites? Or just the environmental pollution, in genera…

The more direct comparison is the blue collar working conditions throughout the west in the late 19th and early 20th centuries actually. It is true that environmental protections could be much better in the United States, did you assume I would disagree or find it shocking? Why?

> but making everyone follow the rules via regulations ends to being a huge cost and time multiplier.

The cost and extra time it takes saves lives. That's the bottom line. It's your attitude that gets people maimed and killed.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#216

Post by joe_mamba »

andrewmutz wrote: post #80
jdw64 wrote: post #7

It’s always fascinating to see how Westerners idealize Japan on platforms like HN. It makes me wonder(i'm korean): how would a Westerner react if they saw me romanticizing the Mondragon cooperatives in Spain? They’d probably find it strange and out of touch with reality. This essay on Japan's corporate diversification and physical tacit knowledge is an interesting read. However, as an East Asian, my assessment is tha…

Japanese and American companies have different purposes. In Japan the corporation primarily provides stable income and employment for society, and secondarily returns on capital invested. In America, corporations primarily provide returns on capital invested and secondarily provide stable income and employment. This shows up in the data too. Japanese corporations are less likely to go out of business but provide wors…

>Japanese and American companies have different purposes. In Japan the corporation primarily provides stable income and employment for society,

Are you Japanese? Because this doesn't match what I know about Japanese companies, like Sony for example, who operate in a very American way.

Your image on Japanese vs American companies feels like the copy and pasted idealistic impression of what American redditors imagine Japanese companies would be like, rather than reality.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#217

Post by amunozo »

lo_zamoyski wrote: post #154
amunozo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thing, being Spanish the Basque Cooperatives movement is fascinating. Do you have any recommended read about it?

These arrangements lean into "third way" and distributist economics. You might find John Médaille of interest. He's written some books[0] about the subject, some articles[1], and given a talk at Google[2]. In the US, the American Solidarity Party[3] draws from distributism, for instance. [0] https://a.co/d/05BxSNZ9 [1] https://distributistreview.com/archive/an-introduction-to-di... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v…

Thank you!

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#218

Post by spkm »

jdw64 wrote: post #7

It’s always fascinating to see how Westerners idealize Japan on platforms like HN. It makes me wonder(i'm korean): how would a Westerner react if they saw me romanticizing the Mondragon cooperatives in Spain? They’d probably find it strange and out of touch with reality. This essay on Japan's corporate diversification and physical tacit knowledge is an interesting read. However, as an East Asian, my assessment is tha…

I'm a german software developer working for a japanese corporation in a german subsidiary. I agree with pretty much everything in your post. Especially the exhausting chain of approvals and also the unwillingness to make quick/tough decisions feels like walking through molasses at times. However, there is also an upside to this. I can actually confirm that they take quality control very serious, probably due to the losing face cultural thing if the product fails the customer and therefore rarely do quick last minute changes or crunch, because it degrades quality.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#219

Post by twoodfin »

xp84 wrote: post #71
toast0 wrote: post #12

> American firms, for example, tend to prioritize focus above all else: it would be bizarre for an American paper mill to also operate a concert hall and an airport catering business I don't think Kimberly-Clark ever opetated a concert hall, but they did run an airline (Midwest Express) and K-C Aviation was an airplane servicing firm. It's not that American companies don't operate in diverse businesses. Maybe they're…

Yeah, we actually had our own era of “conglomerates” - they were very big from the 1960s through 1980s. Companies like ITT, Cendant, Gulf+Western, GE — formed from tons of acquisitions, sprawling across completely unrelated industries. At one point in the 1990s, you could buy a toaster from the same company that makes airplane engines, MRI machines, and produces “Saturday Night Live.” And you may have financed that t…

I am not an expert, but my impression is that the era of US conglomerates was more a product of the financial superstructure: Post-WW2, demographic, economic, and technological growth created many large opportunities for business ventures. But capital markets were much less sophisticated, much smaller than today.

Existing large businesses were the primary source of major investments in new businesses, or in remaking old businesses for a rapidly modernizing world.

Re: Why Japanese companies do so many different things

#220

Post by busterarm »

kibwen wrote: post #209
busterarm wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or don't move into a house with a sagging roof. Most of the companies that I've worked in my adult life were perfectly fine places without any collective bargaining or ownership. And I made orders of magnitude more money as an employee in those situations than I did otherwise. The average salaried employee's work grievances are petty to annoying and outside of that either wouldn't be solved with collective bargaining…

It is in the nature of gravity and entropy that every roof starts sagging eventually. Congratulations on your good fortune, but the vast majority of people are not and will never be in your position.

well over half of us workers report being satisfied with their job.

Also, it's a job. It's not servitude. you're trading your labor for money.

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