Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Seattle Shield, an intelligence-sharing network operated by the Seattle police

prismreports.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 222 posts

Re: Seattle Shield, an intelligence-sharing network operated by the Seattle police

#211

Post by pocksuppet »

yamillove wrote: post #181
gessha wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t it better for all parties if the user is informed that they’re being investigated? This way they might stop from doing the act for which they’re investigated instead of actually carrying it out.

No. We want to catch and send you to the slammer. Criminals and terrorists usually NEVER STOP trying.

Thank you for exemplifying this point. The justice system isn't about stopping crimes. It's about inflicting punishment. In some cases, the justice system even encourages or creates crimes, so it can punish someone.

Re: Seattle Shield, an intelligence-sharing network operated by the Seattle police

#212

Post by pocksuppet »

lstodd wrote: post #108
baddash wrote: post #92

My thoughts as someone who doesn't know much about these types of things: 1. Terry Albury calling this list the "Panopticon" could have merit since he's a former FBI agent. However, I'd have to research more into him to figure out how credible he is, and why he is framing it like this. 2. Amazon and Facebook being in the title is most likely clickbait. They're literally only mentioned once in the article and the rest…

It's like you never heard of Snowden. You don't need to try to force yourself to believe it not being that bad because it has been worse for like 20 years already.

A significant chunk of today's HN readership were less than 10 years old when Snowden leaked.

Re: Seattle Shield, an intelligence-sharing network operated by the Seattle police

#213

Post by therealpygon »

balls187 wrote: post #186
therealpygon wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like those Minnesota soccer mom “terrorists”? It’s hard to assume good faith after repeated bad faith behaviors, hence the reason our justice system is supposed to operate on evidence and a presumption of innocence, rather than “treat everyone like they aren’t a terrorist…yet..but will be if i decide they are”.

No. Our justice system has never actually been based on evidence. It’s based on the doctrine of judicial discretion in the name of preserving order.

“Is” and “supposed to be” are not the same thing, but your perspective appreciated.

Re: Seattle Shield, an intelligence-sharing network operated by the Seattle police

#214

Post by idiotsecant »

baddash wrote: post #122
josh2600 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is... under the laws as they're written today, if US Gov wants to take a peek at your stuff on FB and friends servers, FB can be barred from informing you that such a request has come in under the National Security Letter (NSL) guidelines. It's a very complicated thing :/.

I don't mean to be some annoying contrarian or something, but couldn't it be the case that if the govt was investing someone who was planning a terrorist attack, then notifying the person being investigated could work against stopping them? Not saying it wouldn't get abused though, which seems like the primary concern of most people in these discussions..

Won't someone please think of the children?!?!

Oh, sorry I thought we were pretending we cared about nonproblems in order to destroy individual privacy.

Re: Seattle Shield, an intelligence-sharing network operated by the Seattle police

#215

Post by john_strinlai »

therealdrag0 wrote: post #192
john_strinlai wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ah, yes, the little 8-line explanation there by the entity in question absolutely clears them of all suspicion, really. i am sure that information obtained by seattle shield is not shared to anyone outside of seattle borders. police departments and the FBI are not known to share information, after all. police are especially cagey about sharing with other agencies when it comes to counter-terrorism.

People post cctv footage on YouTube all the time. Is this that different?

yep

Re: Seattle Shield, an intelligence-sharing network operated by the Seattle police

#216

Post by balls187 »

remarkEon wrote: post #196
balls187 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Our justice system has never actually been based on evidence. It’s based on the doctrine of judicial discretion in the name of preserving order.

This is hysterical nonsense. When these things come up people tend to venture into hyperbole. Probably because it's an incentives issue (it gets clicks and upvotes). If "preserving order" was the number everyone in the judiciary optimized for all of violent riots and protests against any cause you can imagine wouldn't have happened. But they did, so therefore this concept of "no evidence" is not true. It's fine to be…

> So obviously there is no reason to invent things that are not true.

Because everyone who has ever been convicted of a crime actually committed the crime.

Re: Seattle Shield, an intelligence-sharing network operated by the Seattle police

#217

Post by pocksuppet »

zuzululu wrote: post #56

How bad are things in Seattle that they are resorting to this? What the hell happened to my hometown?

BLM protestors set it on fire and it's gone now, just like Portland.

No but really, probably nothing special happened. It's just another case of surveillanceists gonna surveil.

Re: Seattle Shield, an intelligence-sharing network operated by the Seattle police

#218

Post by ethbr1 »

idle_zealot wrote: post #138
ClarityJones wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the target were being investigated for terrorism, then the govt could inform the company of that and - if the company tipped the terrorist off - prosecute the company for being an accessory / aid to the terrorist. However, if the govt claimed that the person was a terrorist and the company knew for 100% fact that the person was innocent and the investigation was in bad faith... they could tip off the victim. The N…

> govt claimed that the person was a terrorist and the company knew for 100% fact that the person was innocent and the investigation was in bad faith... This is the thing tearing at the seams of our justice system in general. Our rules are based around an ostensible checks-and-balances arrangement, but this relies on the assumption of good faith from the parties involved. Implicit in this is the idea that if any body…

> Implicit in this is the idea that if any body isn't acting in good faith, it will be so repugnant to voters that the state of affairs will quickly come to an end. This assumption is false.

The appropriate democratic fix here is to enable citizen visibility into NSLs et al.

The fact that they are indefinitely secret from voters is the root issue.

Can't pass judgement on invisible things.

Re: Seattle Shield, an intelligence-sharing network operated by the Seattle police

#219

Post by yamillove »

pocksuppet wrote: post #211
yamillove wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. We want to catch and send you to the slammer. Criminals and terrorists usually NEVER STOP trying.

Thank you for exemplifying this point. The justice system isn't about stopping crimes. It's about inflicting punishment. In some cases, the justice system even encourages or creates crimes, so it can punish someone.

Sometimes crimes are created by governments to control behavior or punish those that opposed their preferred views. Think about those ideas about criminalizing not calling someone by their pronouns, for example.

But yours is a ridiculous conclusion that prison does not stop crimes. Of course sending you to the slammer STOPS the crimes you were going to commit.

Also, we don’t have to send criminals to the slammer. We can send them to live with you and your family, but something tells me your performative statements stop short of allowing that. And that is the issue, some people like you want “society at large” to bear the cost of crime, but don’t want to bear the cost themselves. This has to tell you everything you need to know. It’s basically suicidal empathy. I could ask you to ask Pava Lapere how that worked out, but she is dead.

Re: Seattle Shield, an intelligence-sharing network operated by the Seattle police

#220

Post by pstuart »

red-iron-pine wrote: post #94
acidhousemcnab wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any belief system or club that validates sociopathy as a "higher" state of evolution or enlightenment will worm it's way into intelligence agencies.

the mormons are big in feddy gov agencies, for example

Scientologists back in the days, and likely still: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White
Post reply on HN