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I moved my digital stack to Europe

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Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#211

Post by cryo32 »

AllanSavageDev wrote: post #162
cryo32 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing and hearing the same. When our giant private equity owners are even pushing us down the on-prem route. I’m hearing it from “normal” people too which is actually quite weird. To the point of going back to paper for some stuff.

I spoke with some high level folks at a very profitable private company recently and inquired as to why they had DBAs on staff for what amounts to a pretty simple OLTP type system. Id naively assumed that someone of that scale would be using a cloud provider (RDS for AWS etc) thus negating the need for someone who really knows DB internals and upgrades and OS level stuff. The answer was that they simply didn't trust…

From our perspective I'm not sure the cloud abstraction is better or we even want it to be done like that locally. Look at S3 as an API for example. It's absolutely dire. I'd rather use NFS (!). And stuff like Lambda and Cloud Functions are just cat turds.

On the DB side, I can't say too much as we're a pretty obviously identifiable AWS customer if I give out any details. I will only say that nothing fits our size and scale so we have to run on bare metal. That just makes it really fucking expensive colocation.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#212

Post by flanked-evergl »

Never before in history has a vassal that is this dependent on its patron hated its patron so much.

God help us when the US finally decides that the vast amounts of money it pours down the drain to keep us as its vassal is not worth the squeeze. China and Russia will not be nearly as patient and kind.

America sends a VP to give a speech, which even though it made some politicians cry, was still just words. China will just use us for spare body parts and Russia will drop our people from planes.

America says it really would like Greenland, which it could take with literally zero contest if it wanted, and which it gave back to Europe after Europe had another one if it's many internal meat grinder wars. China and Russia just takes what it wants, they don't ask.

It's really going to suck balls being the punching bag of Russia and China.

Europe is by actual fact completely dysfunctional, constantly getting itself into shit left and right, constantly needing bailouts from America to keep it afloat, and Europeans pretend they are better than Americans. Totally absurd.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#214

Post by libertine »

AllanSavageDev wrote: post #176
embedding-shape wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Definitely a change, because it is not something I can recall being important just a couple of years ago. I work as a consultant and freelancer across a bunch of companies, some American but mostly European ones. Last ~8 months or so, the sentiment about "Hosting our data in EU or even our own country" has drastically changed, I don't think I've seen such a clear shift in public opinion so fast before. The amount o…

EU hosting their own ops like they built the Airbus A380: Database runs in France, front end in Belgium, Operations in Spain... EU Fairness dictates they all need to get a slice of the pie so this will be interesting (and by that I mean absurdly hilarious).

[dead]

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#217

Post by wolvoleo »

drstewart wrote: post #182
wolvoleo wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An invasion threat isn't easily forgotten. Eventually things will be ok but America will have to prove itself again. Trust comes on foot and leaves on horseback. Even if Trump is replaced by a Democrat, the conditions that made Trump happen are still there. That won't change from one day to the next. And don't forget he already happened twice. 10-20 years of decent administrations will make things ok again. But of co…

You are right of course. Germany eventually rebuilt trust within Europe, but now have a highly decoupled economy from their neighbors. As you correctly point out.

No but it has been 80 years doh.

When I was young there was still a lot of ill will and distrust against the Germans and that was 40+ years after the war.

We were still joking about wanting our bikes back (the nazis stole everything metal at the end of the war to make weapons). And didn't like them at beach resorts etc. People would much rather buy American than German products.

That's over now but it took a very long time. Which was exactly my point. Time and consistently good politics will heal this but time it will take.

Of course the sooner you turn things around the better but the disconnection has already been set in motion and big ships turn slowly.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#218

Post by chasd00 »

sisve wrote: post #82
unixhero wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a change. It has been asked since the advent of GDPR. So nearly 10 years.

It started 10 years ago, but have def escalated the last year IMHO. Im sorry to say it, but i feel a lot of Europeans have lost a good deal of trust in the US.

trust or not, US vs EU or somewhere else, you should be in charge of your data and your data should be subject to your laws and yours alone. It only makes sense.

/lives in the US

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#219

Post by spockz »

embedding-shape wrote: post #203
2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely there would have been mumblings in certain sectors of the EU since the first Trump administration? It’s just that they started to execute now?

There been mumblings for as long as I've been a developer, I remember hearing about "EU data independence" first when the ePrivacy Directive came around, which must have been multiple decades ago at this point. But yeah, in recent times the sentiment became more urgent. If I were to guess, with zero data in front of me and just judging by what I remember, I think the sentiment really changed first with the ICC blocka…

Around me, the threat to Greenland is what kicked the plans from “okay what mitigations should we envision?” to “alright, let’s go as far to actually run shadow ops to get acquainted with …” to full on move after the invasion.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#220

Post by xienze »

schnitzelstoat wrote: post #13

While I agree with him that the US is becoming more unpredictable, I don't think the EU is much better, especially with regards to digital things where they can be worse in some ways. For example, they are discussing restricting VPN access for 'child protection'[1] [1] https://www.europarl.europa.eu/thinktank/en/document/EPRS_AT...

> While I agree with him that the US is becoming more unpredictable, I don't think the EU is much better, especially with regards to digital things where they can be worse in some ways.

It makes a lot more sense if you realize pretty much the sole motivation behind all this digital virtue signaling is "put my data somewhere Trump isn't."

Notice how no one really lists contingencies for "what if the EU goes off the rails"? There's always an implicit assumption that EU politics will always be "sane" (read: "aligned with my personal politics").

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