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Twin brothers wipe 96 government databases minutes after being fired
211–220 of 463 posts
Re: Twin brothers wipe 96 government databases minutes after being fired
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Of course the safest (first) option is the correct option from a liability standpoint, which is all a company should operate on since it's first responsibility is to protect the company for those that are still there. Isn't this an unrealistically black-and-white mode of thinking? Humans are complicated and have many values and perceived responsibilities. It's not healthy for them to throw them all out and act as i…
So, never lived in corp land? Healthy isn’t on most corporations radars except where it causes liability to them.
I haven't, but the parent said that this is what a company "should" do, not just what they do do.
Re: Twin brothers wipe 96 government databases minutes after being fired
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
Terminating access and rotating passwords (if needed) while the person is in the meeting but has not yet found out they are being let go has been SOP for at least the last 20 years
Amateurs. My employer does mass layoffs by terminating access to everything except their email account at 3am, and then sending an email to the victim saying “you were let go at 3am”. Managers get to figure out who’s left on their team by pinging everyone when they learn about it at work.
If you're talking about Oracle, the large round previous to that they did had individual meetings with employee, manager, and HR. With so many layoffs it took a week+ to do, effectively torturing an entire set of employees who had no idea if they'd have a job by the end of the hour, let alone week.
I'm not sure there's any good way to lay off large amounts of staff (besides not getting yourself into the situation in the first place where you have to)
Re: Twin brothers wipe 96 government databases minutes after being fired
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you don't trust your people so much, why to hire them in a first place? Looking at it from Europe - it is such a weird inhumane practice. Someone decided your position is redundant. Okay, shit happens, economic downturn, etc. Then you have extra 3-6 months of work to pass your knowledge, train replacement and document everything.
Looking at it from Europe, this definitely also happens. It depends on the situation. I know of ppl who were kept bcs the parting was in good faith (which was less a firing and more an agreement that parting is in everyone's interest), but I also know of ppl who had their access revoked before firing bcs it wasn't. The latter had unilateral system access as well, which added to it. It's not about humane or inhumane,…
> It's part of the reason why Europe is falling behind on everything.
I read a news article that Orange Telecom in France was being sued by a woman they had on payroll for the last 20 years doing nothing, because due to a medical condition she suffered, she became unable to do her job, and since they couldn't fire her due to France unions and labor laws, nor did they have any available job that could fit her current condition, they just kept paying her for 20 years to do nothing at work, and now she's suing them for the depression she got to get paid for no work.
It felt like reading a Monty Python skit.
But Europe is failing due to a myriad of compounding issues and structural deficits, not just because firing workers can be a Kafkaesque nightmare in some countries. European workers' unions and labor protections were even stronger 20-25 years ago and in 2004 the Euro stock market was worth more than the US stock market, while now it's worth half the US one. But that's whole different discussion where pages have to be written to encompass the whole context and cover all aspects of European economic decline. Boiling it down to crazy labor protections would be reductionist and incorrect.
Re: Twin brothers wipe 96 government databases minutes after being fired
#215> [Opexus] said that “the individuals responsible for hiring the twins are no longer employed by Opexus.” Getting close to the classic Monty Python line: "Those responsible for sacking the people who have just been sacked, have been sacked." Jokes aside, stuff like this sucks because I suspect many employers will take from it the most extreme, dehumanizing lessons, e.g.: (a) make firings [edit: including lay-offs] as…
In an age of malicious agentic AI, this level of access is negligent. A lack of engineering controls preventing this from happening at all means that a simple phishing or supply chain attack could easily have resulted in the same outcome or worse.
Re: Twin brothers wipe 96 government databases minutes after being fired
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes limited protection against insiders is good defense in depth but not the primary purpose which is to protect end user accounts on other services in the event that you are breached.
My question still stands: how do you disallow cleartext password extraction if you are breached, assuming all your IT infrastructure and code is now accessible to an attacker? I am talking about not logging them ever, using internal TLS and strong hashing in general, and wondering what exact value is added on top with client side hashing.
There are substantial differences between database access, snooping the logs, internal (no TLS) wiretap, and full MITM of the frontend.
Hashing client side minimizes the risk of any blast radius exceeding the bounds of your own service. There's obviously no way to prevent an adversary who achieves full MITM from gradually harvesting credentials over time. The only solution there is to use keys instead of passwords.
Re: Twin brothers wipe 96 government databases minutes after being fired
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
Amateurs. My employer does mass layoffs by terminating access to everything except their email account at 3am, and then sending an email to the victim saying “you were let go at 3am”. Managers get to figure out who’s left on their team by pinging everyone when they learn about it at work.
If you're talking about Oracle, the large round previous to that they did had individual meetings with employee, manager, and HR. With so many layoffs it took a week+ to do, effectively torturing an entire set of employees who had no idea if they'd have a job by the end of the hour, let alone week. I'm not sure there's any good way to lay off large amounts of staff (besides not getting yourself into the situation in…
>I'm not sure there's any good way to lay off large amounts of staff
Someone on HN once wrote that after the dot.com bust, Yahoo! HR had 1-1 meetings with every single employee that was part of the mass layoffs back then, and they did this for hundreds of workers. Boy what I wouldn't give to go back to such state of affairs, even though I wasn't yet part of the workforce back then.
An older family friend of mine who started working in tech around 2003-2005, told me "back in my day, to get a job, you'd just send your CV to HR@corpo.com, and in 2-3 days you'd get a call asking you when you're free to come over for an interview". Now today you're lucky you get an automated reply back from 50 CVs sent, just for the opportunity to do an impersonal take home assessment as part of the seven stage interview process. It's like screaming into the void of AI bots and automated CV screening systems, while you spin the barrel of the revolver to play the next round of Russian roulette.
And the crazy part is, that when people talk about "the good old days", we're talking about events from recent history, just 10-25 years ago, that a lot of current workers experienced in their lifetime, not stuff from when boomers were kids.
The massive sudden shift in the commoditization of human workers and turning them into faceless labor resources that can be inhumanely disposed of with a keystroke, is real and noticeable to everyone, that I'm envious for you guys who are set to retire soon out of this shitshow.
What comes after this? Have we reached rock bottom, or will it get even worse?
Re: Twin brothers wipe 96 government databases minutes after being fired
#218Re: Twin brothers wipe 96 government databases minutes after being fired
#219> [Opexus] said that “the individuals responsible for hiring the twins are no longer employed by Opexus.” Getting close to the classic Monty Python line: "Those responsible for sacking the people who have just been sacked, have been sacked." Jokes aside, stuff like this sucks because I suspect many employers will take from it the most extreme, dehumanizing lessons, e.g.: (a) make firings [edit: including lay-offs] as…
Then Opexus fired the one who said it.
Leaving no one to say anything anymore on their behalf.
Re: Twin brothers wipe 96 government databases minutes after being fired
#220I'm just amused how these people were even hired to begin with ? They don't seem to be Americans? How were they even allowed to work on sensitive systems? Why was this even allowed? So many questions. At 4:58 pm, he wiped out a Department of Homeland Security database using the command “DROP DATABASE dhsproddb.” At 4:59 pm, he asked an AI tool, “How do i clear system logs from SQL servers after deleting databases?” H…
>> They don't seem to be Americans? How did you conclude that? Just their names?
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