Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Scientists warn Atlantic current at risk of shutting down

e360.yale.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 248 posts

Re: Scientists warn Atlantic current at risk of shutting down

#211

Post by fmkamchatka »

cagey wrote: post #172
SoftTalker wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are many solutions. There are, but none that will be accepted. Will you give up your car, your air condititioning, your AI agents, your uber eats, your year-round fresh produce at the supermarket, meat as a regular part of your diet, all the imported stuff you are accustomed to having?

You're right, I won't, and I'm probably not alone. So what's the endgame? A world government that enforces all of those "give-ups" at gunpoint?

As a family: - We don’t use Uber Eats - We don’t fly - We bike in the city (long tail bikes to carry the kids) - We don’t use A/C (and resist so far installing it) and try to do some passive ventilation, shading to limit the house getting to hot in the summer (it’s gets sometimes around 42 C where we live) - We try to eat local food

…

And we are not sad!

Re: Scientists warn Atlantic current at risk of shutting down

#212

Post by leereeves »

2ndorderthought wrote: post #125
spwa4 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big consequence here is for the EU. And the only way to deal with this is for the EU to force US, India and China to seriously reduce energy use, and with that, their economy. This is not going to happen. The EU can't even convince itself to stop buying from China.

China has made huge efforts toward sustainable power. Google it. The us on the other hand is well you know blowing up oil all over the world with military conflicts that are wars but aren't wars but are wars that are over but evolving and over and evolving. They are also rolling back green energy projects , fueling data centers with gas, etc.

> China has made huge efforts toward sustainable power. Google it.

While also increasing carbon-emissions. China is investing in creating more energy from every source.

Re: Scientists warn Atlantic current at risk of shutting down

#213

Post by thrance »

Timon3 wrote: post #179
thrance wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Selfishness has nothing to do with it. Capitalism rewards anti-social investment strategies and capital accumulation, so that's what we get. "Capital" is not a force of nature, it's an emergent force from our economic system. It behaves sort of predictably and can be described: that's economics. EDIT: got to love how anytime you write something even remotely critical of capitalism you get auto-downvoted. Fine, "clima…

While I agree with you that the system itself inevitably causes these issues, I don't see how this absolves those who use anti-social investment strategies etc. of selfishness. On an individual scale they're still making morally bad decisions, and worse: they're actively influencing the system to exacerbate these mechanisms.

Perhaps, certainly even, but that's not a really interesting way of looking at things. And individual blame is often used as a substitute to systemic analysis of issues.

Re: Scientists warn Atlantic current at risk of shutting down

#214

Post by runarberg »

spwa4 wrote: post #196
jmward01 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think China needs convincing. They have likely already hit peak emissions and will start dropping, potentially rapidly, going forward. Europe is big. It just needs to move forward with purpose and things will happen. Getting that purpose is the hard part because world leaders have consistently said 'it will destroy our economy' and never actually tried. China, again, is showing that this isn't true. You can h…

I don't get what's with all the China fanboys here. China is increasing it's CO2 output quite a bit. And for completeness, so is India. For both countries the CO2 output is bad enough that it's not just adding to global warming, but this coal plant smoke what's causing the famous smog in Beijing and New Delhi. It's causing breathing problems, cancer, ... in their population.

They demonstrably are not.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-chinas-co2-emissions-ha...

https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-indias-co2-emissions-in...

Re: Scientists warn Atlantic current at risk of shutting down

#215

Post by metalman »

ijidak wrote: post #86
metalman wrote: post #59

watch it happening in real time here https://www.ospo.noaa.gov/products/ocean/sst/contour/ I am seeing changes, unprecidented changes, in my decades of watching, and they do not match any predicted scenario.

What changes are you seeing? When I look at these images, it shows me what sea surface temperatures are today, but I don't have context as to how it's changed. I would love someone to stitch years of these images together in a video to help me get better context.

stich them together as an "endless" scroll that can be played, l8ke you say as a video or looked at with all the same days on one screen, which would be the tool I would use to show someone what I have watched for years. observations: there appears to be more heat in the system. there appears to be more mixing. right now the labrador current has been stronger, and reaching further south than I have ever taken note of and the gulf stream is struggling to push past it the current that transports heat around the southern tip of africa is and has been, very strong for the last 6 months. where the SST and the sea ice extent converge, is another way of looking at the same data, and there is more here

https://climatereanalyzer.org/

Re: Scientists warn Atlantic current at risk of shutting down

#216

Post by senordevnyc »

0xy wrote: post #174
senordevnyc wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We will never, ever see a reduction in the amount of energy that humanity uses. The population might dip slightly from climate change (highly unlikely actually), but that won’t be what solves climate change. Clean energy is the solution, and it’s already happening.

This is complete nonsense. The US energy use per capita is down significantly from 1975 and still actively declining.

Who said anything about per capita? Is global total energy use down? Fuck no. Nor will it ever be.

Re: Scientists warn Atlantic current at risk of shutting down

#217

Post by [deleted] »

leereeves wrote: post #212
2ndorderthought wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has made huge efforts toward sustainable power. Google it. The us on the other hand is well you know blowing up oil all over the world with military conflicts that are wars but aren't wars but are wars that are over but evolving and over and evolving. They are also rolling back green energy projects , fueling data centers with gas, etc.

> China has made huge efforts toward sustainable power. Google it. While also increasing carbon-emissions. China is investing in creating more energy from every source.

[deleted]

Re: Scientists warn Atlantic current at risk of shutting down

#218

Post by frm88 »

RijilV wrote: post #57

This is the study which is behind the recent news articles on the AMOC collapse: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adx4298 Basically newer modeling has shown a stronger weakening of the system. Lots of uncertainty, but 1/3rd loss by 2100. There's a lot of unknowns with feedback loops and tipping points where the whole thing might collapse if a threshold is crossed.

For those who prefer visual information, James Stewart on Astrum Earth made a video detailling the changes. Please ignore the somewhat sensationalist thumbnail, the video itself is pretty accurate in its graphs and animations: https://www.youtube.com/live/GDy7Q8iAtFg

Re: Scientists warn Atlantic current at risk of shutting down

#219

Post by raven12345 »

spwa4 wrote: post #196
jmward01 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think China needs convincing. They have likely already hit peak emissions and will start dropping, potentially rapidly, going forward. Europe is big. It just needs to move forward with purpose and things will happen. Getting that purpose is the hard part because world leaders have consistently said 'it will destroy our economy' and never actually tried. China, again, is showing that this isn't true. You can h…

I don't get what's with all the China fanboys here. China is increasing it's CO2 output quite a bit. And for completeness, so is India. For both countries the CO2 output is bad enough that it's not just adding to global warming, but this coal plant smoke what's causing the famous smog in Beijing and New Delhi. It's causing breathing problems, cancer, ... in their population.

You wouldn't say that if you looked at the data

https://www.statista.com/statistics/690823/china-annual-pm25...

Re: Scientists warn Atlantic current at risk of shutting down

#220

Post by idiotsecant »

senordevnyc wrote: post #160
idiotsecant wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its perfectly actionable. Its just inconvenient. Imagine if tomorrow we discovered that internal combustion engines produced a gas which immediately killed everyone with 200 feet. What would change?

If it’s perfectly actionable, why haven’t you fixed it yet?

I'm not claiming it's easy, only that it's actionable. Emotional hyperbole does nobody any good.
Post reply on HN