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OpenAI’s o1 correctly diagnosed 67% of ER patients vs. 50-55% by triage doctors

theguardian.com

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Re: OpenAI’s o1 correctly diagnosed 67% of ER patients vs. 50-55% by triage doctors

#211

Post by squigz »

analog31 wrote: post #161
ianbutler wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like we need to dismantle and replace this broadly dysfunctional system at multiple points. It's not like the US insurance landscape is anywhere close to the best way of handling healthcare if you look at many places in the world.

I used to think this too. But the past couple of years have soured my taste for "dismantle and replace" of vital institutions. I still think healthcare needs to be reformed, and I hope that insurance will someday be a thing of a past, but I've hung up my chain saw for now.

This is because "dismantle and replace" (or perhaps in other words, "defunding") is not a serious, viable solution to many of the societal issues we face.

Things were ruined slowly. They unfortunately will need to be fixed very slowly too.

Re: OpenAI’s o1 correctly diagnosed 67% of ER patients vs. 50-55% by triage doctors

#212

Post by squigz »

Neywiny wrote: post #199
ianbutler wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So much of what I know from women in my life is that the human element of medicine is almost a strict negative for them. As a guy it hasn't been much better, but at least doctors listen to me when I say something.

Agreed. Last time I was sick I said my fevers were pushing up to 100 and they said it's not a concern until 100.4. felt like an odd number. It's 38 C. Because my dramatic undersampling of my temperature was 0.4 degrees lower than their rounded threshold through some unit conversions, I clearly didn't have a fever. That's not a very human touch

I feel like it's possible you misheard/misremember this, considering the temperature for concern is 104.

Re: OpenAI’s o1 correctly diagnosed 67% of ER patients vs. 50-55% by triage doctors

#213

Post by fullstop »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #151
fullstop wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, yes, but when was your last period? This even translates to the pediatric space. I took all of my kids to the pediatrician because either they don't make comments to me like they do to my wife, or I don't take shit from them. I'm not sure which. Here's an example: My wife and daughter were there and the doctor asked what kind of milk my daughter was drinking. She said "whole milk" and the doctor made a comment a…

> My daughter is in her 20s now and is still small -- it's just the way she is. When she goes to see her primary, do you know what their first question is? "When was your last period." Is that supposed to be a problem? How does it connect to the story in your comment? The question seems to be warranted to me, since being underweight can stop you from menstruating. So if you find someone thin and her last period was o…

Perhaps I wasn't as clear as I could have been. My point was that doctors treat women differently than men, even when they're the parents. I don't think that it's inherently malicious, but there is absolutely a bias.

You are asking how it connects, and it absolutely doesn't. But they keep asking and won't accept "it's regular" as an answer.

She's in her 20s and is seeing her primary for routine things, not because of her weight -- that part of the story was about how they chastised my wife for giving her whole milk but said absolutely nothing to me about it later on.

Re: OpenAI’s o1 correctly diagnosed 67% of ER patients vs. 50-55% by triage doctors

#214

Post by tacticus »

fullstop wrote: post #123
ianbutler wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So much of what I know from women in my life is that the human element of medicine is almost a strict negative for them. As a guy it hasn't been much better, but at least doctors listen to me when I say something.

Yes, yes, but when was your last period? This even translates to the pediatric space. I took all of my kids to the pediatrician because either they don't make comments to me like they do to my wife, or I don't take shit from them. I'm not sure which. Here's an example: My wife and daughter were there and the doctor asked what kind of milk my daughter was drinking. She said "whole milk" and the doctor made a comment a…

medical industry must be going for some long term achievement in how much they disbelieve, mistreat, and degrade women going to them.

I wonder how many units of their training courses are spent on this and how much is spent on the cultural reinforcement of it.

Re: OpenAI’s o1 correctly diagnosed 67% of ER patients vs. 50-55% by triage doctors

#215

Post by an0malous »

12345ieee wrote: post #188
an0malous wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I for one am delighted for my acquaintances in the medical field with their cushy, cartel-supported salaries to feel the existential dread of AI coming for their jobs like I have

Oh no, imagine the people that save human lives having high salaries, the horror. If you, like me, are in the software field, know that this is likely the most comfortable job even invented by humanity, we should really be paid just above the poverty line in exchange.

Give me a break, most of them are glorified drug dealers. Their salaries are inflated by an artificially capped supply of doctors, at the cost of patients.

I had to leave my job this year because of burnout when the execs mandated that we use AI tools, become our own designers, PMs, and QA, and double our velocity. They run through a decision tree they leaned in residency every day and I’m learning how to do 3-4 other people’s jobs on top of whatever the new AI thing is. I was working nights and weekends while my friends in medicine are planning their 3rd vacation this year to Tuscany.

Re: OpenAI’s o1 correctly diagnosed 67% of ER patients vs. 50-55% by triage doctors

#216

Post by robocat »

12345ieee wrote: post #188
an0malous wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I for one am delighted for my acquaintances in the medical field with their cushy, cartel-supported salaries to feel the existential dread of AI coming for their jobs like I have

Oh no, imagine the people that save human lives having high salaries, the horror. If you, like me, are in the software field, know that this is likely the most comfortable job even invented by humanity, we should really be paid just above the poverty line in exchange.

Everyone is taught that doctors save lives.

However many others in society save lives that are not so lavishly praised or financially rewarded.

For example in New Zealand median pay for a Road Design Engineer is about $100k NZD compared to a GP (doctor) getting $240k. Plus the doctor gets paid a massive overpayment of social status.

Over a 40-year career, an average NZ GP will save 5 to 10 lives. The Road Design Engineer saves 40 to 120 lives. Road engineers in NZ prevent roughly 10x more serious injuries than they do deaths so it isn't just death stats.

Our hypothetical engineer should be paid > 10x more than the doctor on raw stats.

It gets harder when we start looking at quality of life versus raw lifetime numbers. You then need to consider the value of say entertainment (a good movie) versus the hypothtical lives saved by spending the budget elsewhere.

A game designer might be valued highly by a gamer mum, and negatively by their children and gaming widowed dad.

Re: OpenAI’s o1 correctly diagnosed 67% of ER patients vs. 50-55% by triage doctors

#217

Post by arkt8 »

How much far is 67% against 55%? Does the research considered same patients as the doctors?

How much it can be effective for science if it is not compared side by side how each scenario was evaluated by both and how it came to different conclusions.

Who can ensure a doctor couldn't spot some blind point AI couldn't at the remaining 43%.

Tools are not for replacement but combining efforts.

Throw such % to the public is a lot of irresponsibility.

Re: OpenAI’s o1 correctly diagnosed 67% of ER patients vs. 50-55% by triage doctors

#219

Post by vector_spaces »

gizmodo59 wrote: post #162

The negative reactions here are baffling me. The fact that we can even get to say 30% with computer is amazing. So much hatred towards AI and anything from the frontier labs like OpenAI (or Goog for that matter) makes no sense.

Why are you baffled? The most upvoted critical comments are mostly explaining themselves and I don't think their reasons are very technical. When the stakes are higher, we should generally be more critical, not less.
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