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Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

asahilinux.org

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Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#211

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

kakwa_ wrote: post #71

While I absolutely love the technical write-up from the Asahi team, and being absolutely impressed by their accomplishment, to the risk of being an overly negative contrarian, I remain a bit skeptical. I'm concerned that after all these years, it's still a separate project and not an effort sustained directly within the kernel mainline and mainstream distributions like Ubuntu, Debian or Fedora. These kinds of reverse…

It's disappointing that so much talent is wasted trying to support user hostile Apple hardware.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#212

Post by pxc »

eightysixfour wrote: post #171
rglullis wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are willing to give the advantage to MacOS due to the integration with the hardware, then you should only judge Linux when provided on hardware from Linux-centric vendors like system76, Tuxedo, Starlite and Framework.

I understand the point you are trying to make, but I disagree with it. MacOS doesn’t claim to work on other hardware, Linux does. If System76 said PopOS only works on their hardware, it would be fair to only evaluate it on their hardware. When SteamOS only claimed to work on Steam Decks, the only good evaluation way to evaluate it was on Steam Decks.

> MacOS doesn’t claim to work on other hardware, Linux does.

"Linux" isn't even an operating system. There is no entity in the world who claims "bring any Linux distro at all to any random assortment of hardware you happen to already own, it'll be great and we'll commercially support it!".

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#213

Post by regexorcist »

kakwa_ wrote: post #71

While I absolutely love the technical write-up from the Asahi team, and being absolutely impressed by their accomplishment, to the risk of being an overly negative contrarian, I remain a bit skeptical. I'm concerned that after all these years, it's still a separate project and not an effort sustained directly within the kernel mainline and mainstream distributions like Ubuntu, Debian or Fedora. These kinds of reverse…

[dead]

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#214

Post by rglullis »

eightysixfour wrote: post #186
gf000 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can easily tell you a story of the same with the two OSs reversed. It's no longer 2016, pretty much every hardware worth their salt has good, or better Linux support, with the possible exception of some random RGB led not being controllable out of the box (though usually it's not out of the box either on windows). Like outside of desktop, Linux is the most prevalent operating system and it's not even close.

This wasn’t 2016, it was this year, and we are talking about desktop OSes (given the comparison to MacOS). If I wanted to run it as a server without a desktop environment, it would have been fine. I don’t understand all the folks who crawl out of the woodworks as Acolytes of the Holy Linux Empire every time this topic comes up. Linux is a good desktop OS these days, it is my default, but I don’t have any problems ack…

This conversation started because someone said "I wish we could get a LInux system running on an Apple hardware, that would be the best of both worlds", and then the first response is to make a defense of MacOS, implying that MacOS would be the superior choice even if the Linux integration with Apple hardware was leveled.

What I am refuting is basically the idea that MacOS provides a better "experience" than a modern LInux Desktop installed on any reasonably conventional hardware.

I don't refute that are limitations on Linux. I am not saying that it will run everywhere flawlessly. But I am saying that the average college student, the average "web developer" and the average "elderly folk with basic computing needs" can have a good desktop experience without being forced to pay the Apple tax.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#215

Post by midtake »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #33
confiq wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they got a lot of trolls and Apple fans. The decision was not made lightly.

Honestly, knowing what I know about marcan, the decision was probably the result of an overwhelming/strong emotional reaction. Not to just shit all over him or anything, but it really sucks to see someone who is genuinely top-ten-on-earth when it comes to "real hacking" struggle so much with socialisation and mental health.

[flagged]

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#216

Post by eightysixfour »

jeremyjh wrote: post #194
eightysixfour wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the point you are trying to make, but I disagree with it. MacOS doesn’t claim to work on other hardware, Linux does. If System76 said PopOS only works on their hardware, it would be fair to only evaluate it on their hardware. When SteamOS only claimed to work on Steam Decks, the only good evaluation way to evaluate it was on Steam Decks.

> MacOS doesn’t claim to work on other hardware, Linux does. Who exactly is "Linux", and what specifically is the claim? It looks to me like you don't want to lose the argument on these grounds, but maybe you could still have a nice laptop with Linux on it that just works.

> Who exactly is "Linux", and what specifically is the claim?

Linux distributions have a set of claims for what hardware they work with, usually as minimum system requirements. Since they are the minimum system requirements the expectation should, within reason, exist that the OS will work if you meet or exceed those requirements.

I say "within reason" because no OS can promise that, minimum is not a forward looking statement and the newest hardware is often the hardest to support.

> It looks to me like you don't want to lose the argument on these grounds

Agreed, because I didn't make any claims that this direction of argument negates. Linux has a harder task supporting a broader array of hardware, that doesn't mean that every argument should compare it to MacOS only on golden/chosen hardware.

If you build a distribution that only claims it works on specific hardware, like SteamOS did, then I agree that's a valid comparison.

> but maybe you could still have a nice laptop with Linux on it that just works.

I'm sure I could, I never claimed you couldn't.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#217

Post by __turbobrew__ »

tomnipotent wrote: post #210
__turbobrew__ wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would any group want to take on a project which could be instantly killed by an external for profit entity? For now Asahi is left alone by Apple but that could change in a single day and the entire project is dead. It doesn’t seem like a productive way to direct the limited energy that distribution foundations have on hand.

Except there's no legal basis Apple could use to "instantly kill" the project.

Apple could change the platform/firmware to break Asahi if they wanted to. They could lock down the hardware to make it nearly impossible to install another OS like they do with iphone.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#218

Post by gf000 »

presbyterian wrote: post #207
gf000 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then what is left to compare the two? A supersonic airplane is not better than a bicycle, nor the reverse is true. They are just.. different and only marginally related. Also, "revive" a device is more of a niche thing. What's more generally in line with linux's philosophy is it scaling down to embedded-like hardware, but also scaling up to supercomputers. Neither end is "a bad experience", and none of the other…

> But then what is left to compare the two? Countless other things about the way they work and how they handle what you want to do with them? We're not comparing radically different things, I was intentional about my comparison of Jeep vs Civic: they're the same basic tool, with different applications and contexts where they shine. This isn't an airplane and a bicycle.

Not really - a Jeep and a Civic is pretty similar in use case still. The Mac would be more like a tram that can only go on rails vs perhaps a bus. If we want to make some useless comparison.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#219

Post by nothrabannosir »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #28
jwr wrote: post #4

When I think about it, I don't understand why Apple wouldn't want to help this effort and just provide all the documentation. All the classic reasons ("competitive advantage", "secrets", etc) do not hold water in this day and age.

> I don't understand We really need to retire this phrase, it’s become a humblebrag way of calling the other party delusional without even trying to understand. The list here though is long: priorities, accuracy concerns, blurring the line on official support, IP restrictions with third parties (even Apple uses plenty of licensed cores), etc.

> > I don't understand

> We really need to retire this phrase, it’s become a humblebrag way of calling the other party delusional without even trying to understand.

My dear friend I thought I was alone on this hill. It brings a tear to my eye, to learn I will not die alone.

Re: Asahi Linux Progress Linux 7.0

#220

Post by leadingthenet »

AKSF_Ackermann wrote: post #130
throwawaypath wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I am not sure how what happened can be considered "being outed", the vtuber's puppeteer was obvious from day one to anyone who was paying any attention at all, it is just that a lot of people decided to uphold the kayfabe. (And I don't blame them, at least before the lkml crashout it was a pretty fun character.)

I do not understand why people would rather play into the delusions of a clearly mentally unwell individual for months and year on end — when they well know it's bullshit — under the guise of this somehow being in the interests of said individual and/or being fun. This, to me, is the height of selfishness clocked in disingenuous empathy.

The widespread normalisation of this behaviour, and the subsequent ~~thought~~ now real policing around the issue, is a clear mark of a deep societal ill.

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