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DeepSeek v4

api-docs.deepseek.com

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Re: DeepSeek v4

#211

Post by wraptile »

try-working wrote: post #94
sidcool wrote: post #45

Truly open source coming from China. This is heartwarming. I know if the potential ulterior motives.

if you want to understand why labs open source their models: http://try.works/why-chinese-ai-labs-went-open-and-will-rema...

> Internet comments say that open sourcing is a national strategy, a loss maker subsidized by the government. On the contrary, it is a commercial strategy and the best strategy available in this industry.

This sounds whole lot like potatoh potahto. I think the former argument is very much the correct one: China can undercut everyone and win, even at a loss. Happened with solar panels, steel, evs, sea food - it's a well tested strategy and it works really well despite the many flavors it comes in.

That being said a job well done for the wrong reasons is still a job well done so we should very much welcome these contributions, and maybe it's good to upset western big tech a bit so it's remains competitive.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#213

Post by OhioMan2943 »

elefanten wrote: post #208
b65e8bee43c2ed0 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American companies want a scan of your asshole for the privilege of paying to access their models, and unapologetically admit to storing, analyzing, training on, and freely giving your data to any authorities if requested. Chinese ulteriority is hypothetical, American is blatant.

It’s not remotely hypothetical you’d have to be living under a rock to believe that. And the fusion with a one-party state government that doesn’t tolerate huge swathes of thoughtspace being freely discussed is completely streamlined, not mediated by any guardrails or accountability. This “no harm to me” meme about a foreign totalitarian government (with plenty of incentive to run influence ops on foreigners) hooveri…

And you're saying Americans aren't banned from criticising their elites?

Re: DeepSeek v4

#214

Post by danny_codes »

elefanten wrote: post #208
b65e8bee43c2ed0 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American companies want a scan of your asshole for the privilege of paying to access their models, and unapologetically admit to storing, analyzing, training on, and freely giving your data to any authorities if requested. Chinese ulteriority is hypothetical, American is blatant.

It’s not remotely hypothetical you’d have to be living under a rock to believe that. And the fusion with a one-party state government that doesn’t tolerate huge swathes of thoughtspace being freely discussed is completely streamlined, not mediated by any guardrails or accountability. This “no harm to me” meme about a foreign totalitarian government (with plenty of incentive to run influence ops on foreigners) hooveri…

It’s an open model? So you can run it yourself if you want to

Re: DeepSeek v4

#215

Post by oceanplexian »

libraryofbabel wrote: post #176
greenknight wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, it doesnt need to beat 4.7. it just needs to do somewhat well against it. This is free... as in you can download it, run it on your systems and finetune it to be the way you want it to be.

> you can download it, run it on your systems In theory, sure, but as other have pointed out you need to spend half a million on GPUs just to get enough VRAM to fit a single instance of the model. And you’d better make sure your use case makes full 24/7 use of all that rapidly-depreciating hardware you just spent all your money on, otherwise your actual cost per token will be much higher than you think. In practice y…

There are a lot of companies who would gladly drop half a million on a GPU to have private inference that Anthropic or OpenAI can’t use to steal their data.

And that GPU wouldn’t run one instance, the models are highly parallelizable. It would likely support 10-15 users at once, if a company oversubscribed 10:1 that GPU supports ~100 seats. Amortized over a couple years the costs are competitive.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#218

Post by 3uler »

masafej536 wrote: post #202
revolvingthrow wrote: post #160

> pricing "Pro" $3.48 / 1M output tokens vs $4.40 I’d like somebody to explain to me how the endless comments of "bleeding edge labs are subsidizing the inference at an insane rate" make sense in light of a humongous model like v4 pro being $4 per 1M. I’d bet even the subscriptions are profitable, much less the API prices. edit: $1.74/M input $3.48/M output on OpenRouter

Point taken but there isnt any western providers there yet. Power is cheaper in china.

These models are open and there are tons of western providers offering it at comparable rates.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#219

Post by tommica »

OhioMan2943 wrote: post #213
elefanten wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not remotely hypothetical you’d have to be living under a rock to believe that. And the fusion with a one-party state government that doesn’t tolerate huge swathes of thoughtspace being freely discussed is completely streamlined, not mediated by any guardrails or accountability. This “no harm to me” meme about a foreign totalitarian government (with plenty of incentive to run influence ops on foreigners) hooveri…

And you're saying Americans aren't banned from criticising their elites?

Pretty sure you guys have a strong laws about free-speech, and criticizing elites is part of that. Though there are some groups that do not really want the 1st amendment to be a thing.

Re: DeepSeek v4

#220

Post by Imanari »

abstracthinking wrote: post #199
Imanari wrote: post #191

Just tested it via openrounter in the Pi Coding agent and it regularly fails to use the read and write tool correctly, very disappointing. Anyone know a fix besides prompting "always use the provided tools instead of writing your own call"

They have just released it, give it some time, they probably haven't pretested it with Pi

How can they fix it after the release? They would have to retrain/finetune it further, no?
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