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The quiet disappearance of the free-range childhood

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Re: The quiet disappearance of the free-range childhood

#211

Post by rayiner »

pessimizer wrote: post #131
rayiner wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This behavior is probably overrepresented in the bougie places reporters live. I dropped my daughter off at the mall to hang out with their friends and one of the moms followed them around the whole time. They're all 13!

From the mall story, you also seem to be living in a "bougie" place. What makes you think that places other than where you live are different? One would expect that after your first sentence, the second sentence would be a counterexample.

That’s a fair question. My wife is cheap and I’m indulgent with my kids. So we compromised by sending our kids to private school with yacht club people, but not living around them. Our neighborhood is mostly well-off non-white-collar people: nurses, cops, navy enlisted, guys who did well in trades, etc.

Re: The quiet disappearance of the free-range childhood

#212

Post by lstodd »

sfifs wrote: post #51
NordStreamYacht wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan is a monocultural civilisational state. That is a big factor.

Russia is fairly mono cultural too. Is it safe?

It by no means is monocultural. As for safety, well, yes, pretty safe.

More important is that helicopter-style parenting is unthinkable there, people will just not understand if someone would attempt that. Also not much in insane laws (they have some, but..) and the police will tell you to bugger off if you try make them act on those that exist. So the situation in the article is impossible.

Re: The quiet disappearance of the free-range childhood

#213

Post by insane_dreamer »

Social media, and instant news media (scary news sells), amplify the perception of danger, where the numbers don't back it up.

> Stranger kidnappings are exceptionally rare. They occur roughly 100 times per year, which works out to a 1-in-720,000 annual risk of a child being kidnapped — less likely than being struck by lightning at some point in their life.

> A Pew Research Center survey from 2022 found that about 60% of U.S. parents were “very” or “somewhat” concerned about their children being kidnapped,

Re: The quiet disappearance of the free-range childhood

#214

Post by insane_dreamer »

spicyusername wrote: post #4

I don't know. Maybe this is going away in some places, maybe I just have my own anecdata, but my kids play outside unsupervised all the time, as do all the kids in my neighborhood. I live in just a regular suburban neighborhood on the outskirts of small Metro. Nothing special about it at all. Every time I see one of these articles I always wonder who they're talking about. I always feel like this is just one of those…

> my kids play outside unsupervised all the time

"free range kids" doesn't mean playing outside in a suburban cul-de-sac; it's the ability to go outside the immediate neighborhood on their own (walking, cycling, or public transport) -- stuff I did all the time as a 11-13 year old that is pretty rare these days. I don't think I've ever seen a preteen on the local city transport alone

Re: The quiet disappearance of the free-range childhood

#215

Post by ButlerianJihad »

jMyles wrote: post #108
coldtea wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps they don't identify as a passive news consumer about irrelevant people, but as a resident with a bond to their city and wider community. Imagine that!

I don't think that was the crux of the inquiry / objection. It's wonderful to feel such a bond with one's _community_, but it's a different thing to bind oneself to such a dramatic statistical outlier and make decisions ("dealing with") as if it's a common occurrence.

I mean, I don't know what "decisions" would be made but often people say we are "dealing with" emotions or stress related to something that comes out in the news.

The crux of my stress on this is that riding the light rail is a very common thing for me and millions of my neighbors. In fact we are shocked because we consider it so safe. The LRT should be the safest place in the city, given the cameras, the crowds, the security guards and the vigilant operators.

To think that a vulnerable, female high school student was attacked, broad daylight, onlookers looking, mob of boys (high school I would assume) is just beyond the pale. Nobody did nothing, and the attack continues after she disembarks? It's just unthinkable. There is a Jesuit Catholic boys' school just up the line from where she boarded. Were none of the Brophy boys on hand to step in, to say "stop it" or do anything about it?

And to watch the interview with the mother was just the last straw for me. How upset she is now. Her daughter means the world to her; she couldn't protect her, and she can't "fix this" for her. It's heartwrenching. It should've been safe, especially for a girl like her, so close to adulthood, but legally a child.

Re: The quiet disappearance of the free-range childhood

#216

Post by insane_dreamer »

NordStreamYacht wrote: post #32
ghaff wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The usual contrast being drawn is kids wandering around a suburban area, walking to school, playing with kids in a nearby rural property. It's not hopping onto a bus to the city a few tens of miles away. You do see schoolchildren in Japan on the train by themselves but I'm not sure that's ever been very common in the US.

Japan is a monocultural civilisational state. That is a big factor.

monoculture has nothing to do with it, as if more diversity creates a less safe environment

but Japan is much safer than the US, in no small part because they have the sense to not allow people to own weapons

Re: The quiet disappearance of the free-range childhood

#217

Post by BergAndCo »

KaiserPro wrote: post #181
kannanvijayan wrote: post #37

I have a 10 year old boy and I'm facing these issues right now. I'm also in Canada so culturally adjacent to the US and similar enough with regards to this topic. I don't see child welfare agencies personally as a particular threat when it comes to this topic. Maybe they ARE more likely to get involved in cases of more free range parenting where before they weren't, but it doesn't register as a real worry. The major…

Where I am in the UK its the "problem" kids that are seen out and about on their own. I was freerange growing up in rural england, so I have no problem with the youth roving about. My wife is horrified by the idea, so our kids are somewhat coddled. In the UK at least, children are objectively safer in every metric apart from getting fat. Kidnap, abuse, getting lost, car accidents are all way way down. The interesting…

[dead]

Re: The quiet disappearance of the free-range childhood

#218

Post by insane_dreamer »

zabzonk wrote: post #49
amazingamazing wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> my kids play outside unsupervised all the time, as do all the kids in my neighborhood. I live in just a regular suburban neighborhood Your kids are hardly free-range. Let me guess, there's no way for them to actually meaningfully leave the area (no train, bus, etc)? It's like dumping kids on a 5 acre farm and saying they can do whatever they want. hardly free-range in the way described in the article. Presumably yo…

> my personal litmus test is if you'd let your 13 year kid explore Manhattan alone during the day My parents let me (14) and my brother (9) explore central Paris on our own when my Dad was working at the Paris air show for the RAF. No problems at all even though this was just after the student protests in the 60s, and so things were a little tense. I think Manhattan would be OK too, though I've only been there as an…

I let my then 13 yr old daughter go around Beijing by bus/subway when we lived there 10 years ago; she had a phone. Felt perfectly safe. Same thing in Tokyo. I'm not sure I would have allowed that had we been living in a big US city like LA, Chicago or NYC -- maybe it's just as safe, IDK, but the fact that anyone in the US can own/carry a weapon makes me feel much less safe than in other developed countries.

Re: The quiet disappearance of the free-range childhood

#219

Post by insane_dreamer »

In the late 70s early 80s I went to school in another town from ages 11-13 and would take a train + bus to get there. Was perfectly normal. This was in France though, not US.

I let my 13 year old go out by himself, walk to places, take the street car; he has a phone so he can contact us if he needs help, and we can see where he is if we're concerned. It's ironic that parents are more worried today when technology makes it much _easier_ to track/communicate with your child (back in the day at that age, when I was out of the house my parents had no way of reaching me).

Re: The quiet disappearance of the free-range childhood

#220

Post by Sam6late »

mcastle wrote: post #178
Sam6late wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learnt how to balance and ride a cycle on my own when I was a kid, and I used to 'run away from home' for 12 hours with other kids, I learnt how to swim after drowning, twice, ate whatever was around, green almonds from trees, grapes from vineyards, but raw corn was painful, I would not advise trying. We tried to hunt with arrows and sometimes used gun powder in a primitive red-loading rifle, but we sucked at it. we…

The dude on your shirt is Mork from the show Mork & Mindy, played by Robin Williams.

Thank you, I was bullied all the time because of it.
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