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What being ripped off taught me

belief.horse

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Re: What being ripped off taught me

#211

Post by pseudohadamard »

eckesicle wrote: post #26
eckesicle wrote: post #21

We’ve also learned this lesson the hard way. These are now the clauses we require in every project we do: - Payment is due X days after receipt of invoice, or immediately after the consultant has addressed any quality issues, whichever is sooner - Late payment shall incur interest at 8% above the BoE base rate and a late fee of 100 GBP as per the UK Late Payment Legislation. Partial payments on invoices shall apply t…

Oh and another lesson! Ensuring that each deliverable invoice is small enough that it falls under the simplified claims procedure (in the UK it’s 10,000 pounds) greatly simplifies collection. It costs something like 80 quid to file for recovery in court and in our experience invoices are immediately paid up when a “Letter before action” is sent. You burn the relationship, but arguably you probably don’t want it anywa…

And another lesson: If it looks like a complete catastrofuck the minute you walk in the door, walk straight back out again. Sometimes the only winning move is not to play.

This isn't arbitrary peanut-gallerying, I've walked away from several jobs that weren't anywhere near as bad as the one in TFA because I couldn't see any way forward that wasn't going to end in disaster. One of them at least, I'm fairly certain, would have ended up in criminal prosecution.

Re: What being ripped off taught me

#212

Post by blitzar »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #201
tombert wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back in 2015 I worked for a startup. I turned down a job at a more stable company because this startup had me doing Erlang and I really wanted to work with that. The job worked fine for about six months, and then one week my paycheck (which usually was on the second and fourth Wednesday of the month) wasn't in my bank account. I go the CEO of the company and mention this and he said something like "Oh yeah, something…

During my MBA we were taught about the FedEx founding story [0]. The founder of FedEx got low on cash. So he took all the remaining cash (including what he owed in payroll) to Vegas and gambled it. And won, and paid his staff, and the rest is history. We were taught that this was a great example of "entrepreneurial hustle". I was horrified. How many founders copied this lesson? How many employees couldn't pay their m…

The grifter that teaches this as a great example of "entrepreneurial hustle" as part of an MBA programme is the real hustler here.

Re: What being ripped off taught me

#213

Post by Barbing »

Nifty3929 wrote: post #166

Author - I don't think you learned the correct lessons here. The most important thing is that you weren't "ripped off" - you were taken advantage of. Ripped off is when you buy a TV that's supposed to work and it doesn't. Or you just don't get one. You were taken advantage of - which requires your active consent. Nobody made you do all these things for them on faith. You could have left after a few days. You could ha…

I want to talk about the semantics here, but I'm distracted:

>You could have left after a few days.

Veering towards victim blaming territory there. Also was the FAQ about progress payments added to the OP site after you commented earlier?

Re: What being ripped off taught me

#214

Post by Barbing »

tombert wrote: post #160
avoidyc wrote: post #57

[flagged]

Back in 2015 I worked for a startup. I turned down a job at a more stable company because this startup had me doing Erlang and I really wanted to work with that. The job worked fine for about six months, and then one week my paycheck (which usually was on the second and fourth Wednesday of the month) wasn't in my bank account. I go the CEO of the company and mention this and he said something like "Oh yeah, something…

Rough. Thanks for sharing that.

Re: What being ripped off taught me

#215

Post by aaztehcy »

tombert wrote: post #160
avoidyc wrote: post #57

[flagged]

Back in 2015 I worked for a startup. I turned down a job at a more stable company because this startup had me doing Erlang and I really wanted to work with that. The job worked fine for about six months, and then one week my paycheck (which usually was on the second and fourth Wednesday of the month) wasn't in my bank account. I go the CEO of the company and mention this and he said something like "Oh yeah, something…

[flagged]

Re: What being ripped off taught me

#216

Post by normie3000 »

pseudohadamard wrote: post #211
eckesicle wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh and another lesson! Ensuring that each deliverable invoice is small enough that it falls under the simplified claims procedure (in the UK it’s 10,000 pounds) greatly simplifies collection. It costs something like 80 quid to file for recovery in court and in our experience invoices are immediately paid up when a “Letter before action” is sent. You burn the relationship, but arguably you probably don’t want it anywa…

And another lesson: If it looks like a complete catastrofuck the minute you walk in the door, walk straight back out again. Sometimes the only winning move is not to play. This isn't arbitrary peanut-gallerying, I've walked away from several jobs that weren't anywhere near as bad as the one in TFA because I couldn't see any way forward that wasn't going to end in disaster. One of them at least, I'm fairly certain, wo…

What kind of vibes are you picking up on? As a contractor, "project rescue" is a massive opportunity, so a bit of dysfunction is often a good sign.

Re: What being ripped off taught me

#217

Post by thaumasiotes »

galaxyLogic wrote: post #208
thaumasiotes wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and then one week my paycheck (which usually was on the second and fourth Wednesday of the month) wasn't in my bank account. I go the CEO of the company and mention this and he said something like "Oh yeah, something got fucked up with payroll man, don't worry we'll give you a double paycheck next time, with interest man". > I was young enough in my career to just accept that This reminded me of two much smaller-sc…

Maybe she just needed the money. Paying later always has the risk that it will never going to happen. And she helped you, did she get anything in return?

I baked her a pie about once a week.

Re: What being ripped off taught me

#218

Post by anovikov »

In atheist cultures with no concept of sin, people see obeying contracts as being sheep, it is in fact looked down upon. People will pay you only when they need something else from you, so solution is to frame a contract in a way they won't be able to make do without your final deliverable - and assume that final deliverable will never be paid, just price that in.

It's not a pleasure to work like this, but it can be done.

Re: What being ripped off taught me

#219

Post by roryirvine »

normie3000 wrote: post #216
pseudohadamard wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And another lesson: If it looks like a complete catastrofuck the minute you walk in the door, walk straight back out again. Sometimes the only winning move is not to play. This isn't arbitrary peanut-gallerying, I've walked away from several jobs that weren't anywhere near as bad as the one in TFA because I couldn't see any way forward that wasn't going to end in disaster. One of them at least, I'm fairly certain, wo…

What kind of vibes are you picking up on? As a contractor, "project rescue" is a massive opportunity, so a bit of dysfunction is often a good sign.

I'm a consultant rather than a contractor, but the "shitshow" projects are amongst my favourites. They offer the chance to make a clear positive impact, which can be hugely rewarding.

From my pov, green flags for a good "bad" project mostly come from the attitude of leadership - especially if they already recognise there's a problem, and that some form of cultural change may be needed rather than expecting a purely technical solution.

On the other hand, if they seem reluctant to consider root causes, or if there's any sense that they're seeking to cover up problems or shift blame, then those are pretty clear red flags. Quick fixes tend to fall apart, and aren't really satisfying for anyone.

Re: What being ripped off taught me

#220

Post by tecleandor »

Nifty3929 wrote: post #166

Author - I don't think you learned the correct lessons here. The most important thing is that you weren't "ripped off" - you were taken advantage of. Ripped off is when you buy a TV that's supposed to work and it doesn't. Or you just don't get one. You were taken advantage of - which requires your active consent. Nobody made you do all these things for them on faith. You could have left after a few days. You could ha…

Well, they signed a contract saying they would pay a certain amount in exchange of certain work. They were supposed (and promised) to pay that amount, and when the time came, they didn't. I'd say that's a rip-off and very similar to "I was supposed to receive a TV on exchange for certain work, and what I got in the mail was a brick".
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