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Solar and batteries can power the world

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Re: Solar and batteries can power the world

#211

Post by Ajedi32 »

pingou wrote: post #197
Ajedi32 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that to achieve that you can't just build 90% solar plus 10% fossil fuels. You would need to build 100% solar + 100% fossil fuels for the 10% of the time solar doesn't work.

Good thing it's already built then! Well, of course it cost money to maintain though.

Yes, but if you need to have all that infrastructure anyway it no longer makes sense to compare the cost of solar+batteries with the cost of fossil fuels because you actually need to have both.

If you compare the total cost of solar with just the fuel cost of fossil fuels (ignoring its CapEx and non-fuel OpEx) that swings the equation a lot.

Re: Solar and batteries can power the world

#212

Post by KaiserPro »

jwr wrote: post #49

No, they can't, not unless we get rid of the fossil fuel lobby, which pretty much runs the world these days. Which isn't surprising, given that fossil fuels are the largest industry ever created by mankind. If you compare it to anything else which was actively harmful and yet big money tried to convince you it wasn't (like tobacco, alcohol, or really anything else), there is nothing that huge. So it isn't surprising…

I mean yeah, but $100 a barrel makes it difficult to argue.

Re: Solar and batteries can power the world

#213

Post by Windchaser »

legitster wrote: post #72

By 2050 is the important caveat. That's assuming constant production of batteries at the current scale and production. It also assumes we figure out how to economically recycle materials from batteries (and total recovery may never be possible). Grid scale lithium batteries have an effective lifecycle of 15 years. In this potential future, global lithium reserves would actually start getting choked up before the 2050…

> Grid scale lithium batteries have an effective lifecycle of 15 years. In this potential future, global lithium reserves would actually start getting choked up before the 2050 goal.

I think the long-term solutions here are not grid-scale lithium batteries, but pumped hydro, flow batteries, or compressed air. Lithium batteries have just gotten a bit ahead on the technological growth curve because of the recent boom in production from phones and EVs, but liquid flow batteries can be made using common elements, and are likely to be cost-effective once the tech gets worked out better.

So: I don't think we can say "lithium energy storage is unfeasible large-scale and long-term" and thus conclude that nuclear is inevitable, unless we also look at all the other storage alternatives.

Re: Solar and batteries can power the world

#214

Post by pixl97 »

lazide wrote: post #155
turtlebits wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree with underestimating capacity, the problem only really applies to off grid. For regular homes, it just means less savings.

It means some other infrastructure (fossil fuels?) needs to take up the slack, and people underestimate actual costs at larger scales. It’s the big issue in Germany for instance - it’s all fun and games until Winter.

And? Any coal not used in summer is coal not dug up.

Re: Solar and batteries can power the world

#215

Post by IAmBroom »

EcommerceFlow wrote: post #70

Disappointed the article doesn't transmission of electricity and how little the loss is. People are quite surprised that it's like 3.5% per 1000 km. We could just build out huge solar farms in AZ and transmit it accordingly. We did it for railroads, why not here?

That number is improbably low. Transmission losses from local power plants to consumers is on the order of 10%.

Cite, please?

Re: Solar and batteries can power the world

#216

Post by coryrc »

dv_dt wrote: post #56
declan_roberts wrote: post #5

The article is just wrong. And only mentions energy used for heating in passing. Heating requires MASSIVE amounts of energy. I should know bc I have a whole house battery and solar system (almost 30 kWh battery and 24kW solar). It keeps the lights on, but not heating. I live in a mild climate. The reality is that battery/solar requires major quality of life and activity time shifting trade-offs.

Beyond the other better insulation comments, pairing electric with heat pumps that are SEER 10+ goes a long way to improve heating efficiency. Old resistive heaters are 1:1 on energy to heat, while newer heat pumps operate to much lower temperatures, and give you 1:10 or 1:15 electric:heat energy ratios.

That's not even close to correct. At the design lowest temperature (if The average of installed units is closer to 2.0 COP average, unfortunately. Multi-head units really drive down efficiency. A single-head Gree Sapphire can do 4-5 COP on average and that's the best you can get, so still nowhere near your guess.

Re: Solar and batteries can power the world

#217

Post by pishpash »

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #116

This would be more believable to skeptics if it wasn't all pro-arguments and theory. If you don't cover the cases in which it doesn't work, or at least mention the arguments against, it reads as propaganda. The thing that reads the most false is the economics. A 480W solar panel is like $90 on sale, they're dirt cheap. A dozen of them is $1,080. But an installed solar+battery system tied to the grid is more like $30,…

Or you are somewhere in Africa and have no electricity anyway so you start on something renewable.

Re: Solar and batteries can power the world

#218

Post by KaiserPro »

AndreyK1984 wrote: post #54

What about STORING excess power and delivering it during the day at a same level ? That is a critical part! I remember last time it was too expensive.

Thats whats driving the buildout in places like spain.

Solar power is in curltailment most days, so to make money solar operators need to add batteries to take free energy and shift it to the ultra expensive parts of the day.

Re: Solar and batteries can power the world

#219

Post by esseph »

chrisBob wrote: post #194
chongli wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

66F is ridiculously cold to me, and I live in Canada where it can reach -40(F or C) in the winter. I would find that very uncomfortable and elderly people would be shivering constantly and highly susceptible to respiratory illness. I have a modern cold climate air source heat pump which essentially needs to run 24 hours a day to maintain a stable 20C when the outdoor temperatures reach -15C. Below that, the heat pump…

People acclimatize pretty well if you let them. We keep our house at 65F all winter, and set the AC for 85F in the summer and everyone is pretty happy. The payback period on a good sweater is not very long.

85?!?

I've lived in extremely cold and extremely hot/humid places.

I cannot imagine setting the temp in the house that high.

Re: Solar and batteries can power the world

#220

Post by pixl97 »

aidenn0 wrote: post #154
rickydroll wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

same here. 1940's house with slate roof and vermiculite "insulation". You can't just use modern insulation techniques or blown-in foam because that would make exterior wood rot. You need to keep the air flowing the right way to dry out the wood.

I have to clean the eaves of my house myself because nobody I hire will believe me that you can't point a pressure washer at the eaves without water getting inside the walls. "I'll just avoid the vents" doesn't work when you can see daylight between the roof and the wall all around the house.

I'm guessing you don't live in a place with tropical storms or really severe weather.

Where I am your house would flood when 80mph+ winds blow the rain up your walls.

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