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Artemis computer running two instances of MS outlook; they can't figure out why

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Re: Artemis computer running two instances of MS outlook; they can't figure out why

#211

Post by AIorNot »

workfromspace wrote: post #130
AIorNot wrote: post #113

guys former NASA Mission Control Web Tool Team and OCA here (Orbital Comms Adapter office which was a backroom position) Crews have been using thinkpad laptops (personal laptops since the 2005) on the ISS and Shuttle. Artemis is likely an extension of this Laptops go through a long space hardening and verification process. Windows and Outlook is the result of that We used to do "Mail Syncs" which taking the outlook f…

> guys former NASA Mission Control Web Tool Team and OCA here Wow, very cool and lot's of respect! But... why not use linux, unix, custom OS, iPad, Android, Nintendo SNES, Atari, Commodore 64... anything BUT Microsoft? (Seriously though, why not Linux? I'd really appreciate if you could answer, thank you! )

Well as to why they were chosen back in the STS (shuttle) era (before my time) see a good history on the decision here: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=27043.0

1. In the space program decisions are made years before and changes are very difficult owing to a myriad of reasons from procedures to paperwork, eg there was a whole mirror lab setup on the ground To support them etc

2. Astronauts/Aerospace operationally often come from defense world - they are used to windows - see DoD -that battle was fought in the 80s/90s

3. Once something is a part of the space program it takes on a life of its own/ we had an IIS webserver onboard the ISS for example and also apache tomcat - we (myself wrote software for both) using .NET and Java

4. Training and operational software and docs were all MS Office variety for years (were talking from floppy disk era here)

5. Lot of other linux/unix based systems too this is is just crew support laptops - not considered mission critical

Re: Artemis computer running two instances of MS outlook; they can't figure out why

#215

Post by wetpaws »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #167
EvanAnderson wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why people are surprised by this. Using suitable off-the-shelf solutions for non-mission-critical purposes seems like a very reasonable thing to do. I'm recalling this from my memory of "The Space Above Us" podcast: There were various bespoke teleprinters sent up on early shuttle flights that had exciting failure modes (if I remember correctly one of them started smoking) and in at least a couple of case…

I’m surprised they went with outlook rather than something like thunderbird. And I’m surprised they are burning power on an os that can run outlook.

[dead]

Re: Artemis computer running two instances of MS outlook; they can't figure out why

#216

Post by dotancohen »

applfanboysbgon wrote: post #210
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also going to take a hell of a lot longer and cost more than buying an Outlook license. If I was lead on that project, you'd have an uphill battle trying to convince me that spending $100k+ on an email solution unless you can point to specific, serious deficiencies in the existing off the shelf solutions. Software Engineering is far from a lost art: part of the practice is intelligently making cost-benefit decis…

The current solution is literally causing problems in space. Space-grade engineering is expensive, but having things go wrong on your already very expensive mission is even more expensive.

Until we've had this failure, I do agree that using COTS software was the logical choice. And now we know better.

Re: Artemis computer running two instances of MS outlook; they can't figure out why

#217

Post by dotancohen »

autoexec wrote: post #196
stackskipton wrote: post #41

Everyone likes to point and laugh, sure, I'm getting a chuckle as well. However, on more practical level, what are other options? Outlook, the desktop application works really well with local copies, is pretty low bandwidth and very familiar to end users. IMAP with Thunderbird is probably only other option that would satisfy the requirements. EDIT: Yes they need to get email in space. It's easy way to send documents…

Email is a pretty good way to send short text messages, but it's not great at sending files. The basic protocols are pretty simple and we've got a lot of experience using them. I can see the appeal of email. There's no way that outlook is the best tool for the job though, and it's no surprise at all that they're having problems with it. It's a complete mess with insane amounts of overhead and bloat if all you want to…

This comment is downvoted, but it is correct. Emailing a file takes roughly 30% more bandwidth than a file transfer protocol (any such protocol, not necessarily FTP) due to mime encoding.

Re: Artemis computer running two instances of MS outlook; they can't figure out why

#218

Post by dotancohen »

tempaccount5050 wrote: post #103
acdha wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the only other option I’d consider for this would be Apple Mail on an iPad for the same reason that it works well offline or with low bandwidth networks. There’s a QA issue here but the logic is quite reasonable.

Apple Mail does not play nicely with Outlook/Exchange/M365 accounts. Everywhere I've worked had said "You can use Apple Mail if you want, but IT won't be supporting it. Outlook app only." Always issues with syncing mail or contacts.

Outlook is notoriously difficult to interface with. The only real success story I'd ever seen was some Thunderbird extension. I think it was called Owl. I had the company pay for it, but I think that it wasn't very expensive. It synced contacts and calendar too.
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