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Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

hormuz.pythonic.ninja

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Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#211

Post by mikkupikku »

flyinglizard wrote: post #91
malfist wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part of "doing the right thing" is bombing an all girls school?

Do you think some evil military planners sat in the Pentagon, saw that school, said "let's shoot at it for shits and giggles" and pressed the button? Or are you trying to pollute a grown up conversation with sensationalism and punchy hooks? In reality someone made a mistake. It can happen. It should be investigated. It should not deter from achieving the military objectives.

Possibly so, yes, that may have happened. The strike may have been calculated to inflame the Iranian public and lock them into a prolonged conflict, great for military contractors and their shareholders.

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#212

Post by samus »

pjc50 wrote: post #179
flyinglizard wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's it? Momentary gasoline price is all that matters now? Not geopolitical interests, alliances, _Doing The Right Thing_? If that's the only angle you care about, then US subduing the Iranian regime would go a long way to de-facto dissolving OPEC and bring much more flexibility to oil prices.

So .. the plan is Big Afghanistan, to install a puppet regime at massive expense which evaporates the moment the US ground troops leave?

They don't really care what happens afterwards. They openly admitted that a Libya-like situation would be preferable compared to leaving the current regime in power. Whether that's actually a strategically valid assessment is a completely different question.

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#213

Post by fc417fc802 »

15155 wrote: post #202
fc417fc802 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean in relative terms ... It never ceases to amaze me that demonstrating such a weapon on civilian targets somehow made it past the entire chain of command. One of those things that I just can't wrap my head around no matter how many times I come back to it.

They weren't exclusively civilian targets, they were considered "mixed" targets. Hirohito's home wasn't considered strategically-important enough and therefore didn't make the cut. The sites in question were also specifically selected because they hadn't previously faced conventional attack, enabling a more accurate damage assessment.

No sir that's not a school we're proposing to bomb, it's a complex containing both a school and a vehicle maintenance facility. So it's mixed, meaning there's valid logistical reasons to attack it. Yes, hundreds of children will perish in the attack, but the action will also provide us with legitimate benefits. Just try not to think about the former and focus on the latter. I'm sure no one in the future will judge us too harshly for the decision.

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#214

Post by mothballed »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #95
whatsupdog wrote: post #63

[flagged]

Once you have enough karma you can flag stories.

You can be shadow banned from flagging and vouching at which point you can still click it but nothing will happen. Not sure if it counts for stories.

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#215

Post by brightball »

applfanboysbgon wrote: post #135
flyinglizard wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think some evil military planners sat in the Pentagon, saw that school, said "let's shoot at it for shits and giggles" and pressed the button? Or are you trying to pollute a grown up conversation with sensationalism and punchy hooks? In reality someone made a mistake. It can happen. It should be investigated. It should not deter from achieving the military objectives.

Destroying a school is not an "oopsie". It should literally not be possible for it to happen in any organization that values human life at all. This was a precision strike with three missiles hitting the same target, they should have been goddamn sure they knew where the millions of dollars in ordnance they were launching for the purpose of ending human life were headed. Of course, the US military places zero value o…

Let’s have a serious conversation about downplaying things because this is where all of these conversations go sideways.

Many people, myself included, watch very loud righteous indignation about this awful event…while hearing absolutely nothing from the same people about…

- The Iranian women’s soccer team who are returning home from asylum to likely torture and execution due to regime threats against their families.

- The thousands of Iranian protesters who were shot by the regime.

- The 19 year old wrestling champion who was executed for participating in a protest.

Nobody is saying the school wasn’t terrible, but it’s not some situation where if we just leave the regime in power it’s going to be all sunshine and roses over there.

Show equal parts outrage and people will take you more seriously. Show equal parts outrage and you will find far more outrage from leaving the regime in power.

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#216

Post by austin-cheney »

brightball wrote: post #192
galactus wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that if you start an unjustified war of agression against a country and you kill 150 children, you should be held responsible

Well, a couple of days ago Iran fired 2 missiles at a US base in the Indian Ocean with twice the range of anything they were supposed to be allowed to have. That was pretty validating for the war effort.

That is not a validation of anything and it is not a US base.

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#217

Post by selimthegrim »

hakrgrl wrote: post #119

How about you make an app about "winning" that involves flying a cargo plane loaded with so much cash to Iranian Islamists that it struggles to stay aloft. Because that was the strategy before Trump and it led to terror tunnels, terror proxies, and weapons grade nuclear enrichment. Edit: For the record this actually happened 10 years ago under Obama. https://www.cnn.com/2016/08/03/politics/us-sends-plane-iran-... > W…

[flagged]

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#218

Post by 15155 »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #213
15155 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They weren't exclusively civilian targets, they were considered "mixed" targets. Hirohito's home wasn't considered strategically-important enough and therefore didn't make the cut. The sites in question were also specifically selected because they hadn't previously faced conventional attack, enabling a more accurate damage assessment.

No sir that's not a school we're proposing to bomb, it's a complex containing both a school and a vehicle maintenance facility. So it's mixed, meaning there's valid logistical reasons to attack it. Yes, hundreds of children will perish in the attack, but the action will also provide us with legitimate benefits. Just try not to think about the former and focus on the latter. I'm sure no one in the future will judge us…

So an automatic cheat code to win any and all conflicts is simply to put strategic assets in schools?

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#219

Post by mikkupikku »

brightball wrote: post #192
galactus wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that if you start an unjustified war of agression against a country and you kill 150 children, you should be held responsible

Well, a couple of days ago Iran fired 2 missiles at a US base in the Indian Ocean with twice the range of anything they were supposed to be allowed to have. That was pretty validating for the war effort.

Iran shooting back after being attacked validates the decision to attack them in the first place?

"supposed to be allowed to have."

Ridiculous premise. They armed themselves thusly because American politicians have been singing "Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran!" for generations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomb_Iran

Re: Hormuz Minesweeper – Are you tired of winning?

#220

Post by Pay08 »

donalhunt wrote: post #29
seydor wrote: post #2

Hormuz is not a minefield though. According to sources, ships are moving near the coast of Iran, according to other sources they are being charged $2M per passage. According to other sources only Yuan paid oil is allowed.

Iran has indicated they will only target ships tied to countries that are involved in the conflict. That likely means US and Israel. Unclear if countries like the UK that are facilitating the US through use of their bases would be considered legitimate targets (likely yes).

That's not how mines work. They don't only explode on people you want them to explode on.
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