211–220 of 228 posts
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I live in the real world where Wayland breaks by design the workflow of lots of people and Wayland people refuse to acknowledge that.
Could you elaborate?
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> I can make it do basically anything I want X11 can't do high refresh rates every time that I've tried to do so.
It runs just fine at 165 hz for me. Given that xrandr and CRTs have been around for a while, and both have supported high refresh rates for a long while, something seems fishy here. Something is probably at fault, but it's not X11.
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Neither way works in Wayland. A program can know where it was clicked but not where the pointer was immediately before that. For that matter Wayland doesn't have a concept of "the" pointer; there may be multiple pointers.
Surely programs can know where the pointer is as long as it is over a window that belongs to the program. Otherwise hover wouldn't work.
I don't get the frustration with wayland (the protocol) in the comments. This project shows that having a separate window manager was always possible. First we got wlroots as a library that did most of the heavy lifting, and now we got river as an even higher level abstraction. Sure I agree that wayland (the project) could have provided these abstractions much earlier. But anyone else could have done it, too. We get…
Wayland is 17 years old. At this point, it's almost more frustrating to have one of its bigger architectural problems potentially addressed, precisely because it shows that it was always possible, and the people pushing for its adoption just... didn't bother doing the things that would make it easier to adopt.
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You have some weird memory, screenshots have been a solved issue for something like 6 or 7 years at the very least, if not a decade. I remember taking screenshots on wayland during the Covid era for instance.
Wayland experiences seem to vary wildly. It was most certainly not working fine for me six years ago. Well, six years ago I don't think I got as far as trying screenshots, I'd run into basic window placement or rendering issues that made the system unusable. But say a couple years ago, I definitely had screenshot issues. Sometimes it just wouldn't capture a screenshot. Or I could only capture one monitor and not the…
And waypipe has been solving this need to run a remote app on a wayland remote system. And it performs way better than X forwarding actually. With ssh -X you also need to remember obscure environment variables (looking at you QT) to not have unusable blank windows on some apps.
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> And how would they be able to "push stuff down people's throats" if people could walk away towards alternatives? It's a forcing of their narrow opinion on what should be allowed onto the ecosystem at large, because all of these things are connected. You can leave to a different DE/distro, but if every DE is doing its own thing for global hotkeys or whatever, then software in the ecosystem is going to be hacky/bespo…
I dunno, I think tray icons support is kind of the absurd hill to die on. They're a Windows 95-ism and generally extremely horrible in terms of usability. Apps use them and desktop environments support them mostly out of a lack of imagination, and they are frankly extremely overused. I'm personally a KDE user, but I'm with the GNOME folks on this one.
I'm not sure what Windows is like these days, but in MacOS they're patently absurd. My corporate Mac laptop has twelve of the fucking things, and I've never actually had genuine need to click on any of them (and 5 of them are from Apple and so of course use 4 different corner radii between them - the 3rd party ones are at least a little more consistent).
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Remote access on X11 is a mess and I won't miss it, at least on Wayland everyone is funneled through EGL or Vulkan and there's a reasonable path to layering remote access on top of that.
X11 remote access have worked really well for me. And the best part is that it worked even when the client machine has no graphical subsystem installed. I can launch GUI applications remotely with a non-privileged account and it shows on my machine as if it was native. Wayland can use RDP and some other remote desktop protocols, but it is not what I want, I want a window, not a desktop. There is Waypipe now, I heard…
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I do not know exactly what all that means but does it needs to be desktop wide or just inside a specific app window?
Neither way works in Wayland. A program can know where it was clicked but not where the pointer was immediately before that. For that matter Wayland doesn't have a concept of "the" pointer; there may be multiple pointers.
> Using the wl_seat.get_pointer request, clients may obtain a wl_pointer object. The server will send events to it whenever the user moves their pointer, presses mouse buttons, uses the scroll wheel, etc — whenever the pointer is over one of your surfaces. [...] The server sends this event when the pointer moves over one of our surfaces, and specifies both the surface that was "entered", as well as the surface-local coordinates (from the top-left corner) that the pointer is positioned over.
So the program should know the pointer's local coordinates.
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It's because people got used to using screen share in X11 when they really want remote login. You cannot do remote login if there has to be someone sitting at the PC to approve it. Since Wayland has no remote login model, people are left trying to kludge together something out of screen sharing. I can guarantee the moment login over RDP becomes available everyone complaining about the screen sharing will quiet down.…
https://github.com/KDE/krdp Works great. Ya'll are exhausting. Wayland is the one thing where nerds on the internet will not even bother grabbing a livecd of a linux distro just to try it out and then complain about things that have been implemented for years.
Okay so I STILL have to log in locally before I can log in remotely. Also the list of known issues is pretty concerning. This is in not even close to a remote login solution. You are not accomplishing anything by pretending Wayland is anything more than a half-baked toy at present.
I don't get the frustration with wayland (the protocol) in the comments. This project shows that having a separate window manager was always possible. First we got wlroots as a library that did most of the heavy lifting, and now we got river as an even higher level abstraction. Sure I agree that wayland (the project) could have provided these abstractions much earlier. But anyone else could have done it, too. We get…
First they said we couldn’t have screenshots because they were insecure. Then they added them back in. Next, it was accessibility APIs and I guess copy paste is still flaky. Now, it’s window managers. What’s next, Remote Desktop? The whole reason given for wayland’s replacement of x11 was that those things are all fundamentally bad ideas. It’s been 15 years. Linux desktops are more fragmented than ever, and they’re s…
> for reasons no one understands
Reasons are sadly typical for FOSS: from the start the devs were focused on their favorite use cases with no communication with end users to figure out theirs.