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Debian decides not to decide on AI-generated contributions

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211–220 of 308 posts

Re: Debian decides not to decide on AI-generated contributions

#211
post #128

The quality argument against LLM-generated code has always seemed weak to me. Maintainers already review patches because humans routinely submit bad code. The review process is the filter.

Bad human code is usually fairly obvious, bad LLM code often less so, because it’s trained to produce superficially sensible-looking code. Hence reviewing it requires higher alertness and is more work. The other problem is that LLMs allow a human to submit much larger amounts of code to be reviewed than if they had to write the code themselves.

Re: Debian decides not to decide on AI-generated contributions

#212
post #140

In some sense, I think the promise of free software is more real today than before because everyone else's software is replicable for relatively cheap. That's probably a much stronger situation for individual freedom to replicate and run code than in the era of us relying on copyright.

This freedom depends on the hardware and pricing of megacorps that are currently busy in applying their knowledge to do surveillance and killing. I doubt we can rely on them to help with our freedom.

Re: Debian decides not to decide on AI-generated contributions

#214
If it works, it's not wrong. Wasting any time or energy on determining whether or not the source is AI is stupid. If all the requirements are met, in terms of style guide, documentation, functionality, thorough testing and correctness, then it's good. Doesn't matter if AI wrote it, or if it's artisanal hand-crafted bytecode lovingly prepared by a native of Computronistan.

The trick is to define what works - set the bar high enough that you're driving away raw human contributors, annoying high value humans, or arbitrarily barring AI users out of dogma or politics or whatever. A hierarchy of maintainers, with people willing to volunteer to sift through submissions, each handing up a much reduced list to the next level, is probably where big projects will have to go.

At some point it won't matter; while it does, look for enthusiastic volunteers and make good, sensible, functional rules that get the best results.

Re: Debian decides not to decide on AI-generated contributions

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you sign off the code and put your expertise and reputation behind it, AI becomes just an advanced autocomplete tool and, as such, should not count in “no AI” rules. It’s ok to use it, if that enables you to work.

> If you sign off the code and put your expertise and reputation behind it, AI becomes just an advanced autocomplete tool and, as such, should not count in “no AI” rules. No, it's not that simple. AI generated code isn't owned by anyone, it can't be copyrighted, so it cannot be licensed. This matters for open source projects that care about licensing. It should also matter for proprietary code bases, as anyone can co…

Care to explain? I see that statement in this thread, but I am not sure where this is grounded in fact.

This is very interesting, because there must be a line here that AI is crossing, and the line is not clearly determined yet.

Is linting code crossing the line?

Is re-factoring code with automated tools like bicycle repair man crossing the line ?

Is AI doing a code review and suggesting the code crossing the line ?

Is writing code with a specific prompt and sample code crossing the line?

Is producing a high level spec and let the AI design details and code the whole thing crossing the line ?

So, where exactly is this line ?

The next interesting question is how this could even be enforced. It's going to be hard to prove AI use when using strictly local models. Maybe they could embed some watermark like thing, but I am not sure this can't be circumvented.

Would really like to see some legal opinions on this ( unlikely to happen :)

The best I found is here: https://copyrightlately.com/thaler-is-dead-ai-copyright-ques...

Re: Debian decides not to decide on AI-generated contributions

#216

My two cents: I've been coding practically my entire life, but a few years back I sustained a pretty significant and lasting injury to my wrists. As such, I have very little tolerance for typing. It's been quite a problem and made full time work impossible. With the advent of LLMs, AI-autocomplete, and agent-based development workflows, my ability to deliver reliable, high-quality code is restored and (arguably) bett…

> I'd MUCH rather see a holistic embrace and integration of these tools into our ecosystems. Telling people "no AI!" (even if very well defined on what that means) is toothless against people with little regard for making the world (or just one specific repo) a better place. That doesn't address the controversy because you are a reasonable person assuming that other people using AI are reasonable like you, and know h…

> The rumors we hear have to do with projects inundated with more pull requests that they can review, the pull requests are obviously low quality, and the contributors' motives are selfish. IE, the PRs are to get credit for their Github profile. In this case, the pull requests aren't opened with the same good faith that you're putting into your work.

"Open source" does not mean "open contribution", i.e. just because the software is open source does not imply that your contribution (or in particular a not-high-effort contribution) is welcome.

A well-known application that is open source in the strictest sense, but not open contribution is SQLite.

Re: Debian decides not to decide on AI-generated contributions

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd MUCH rather see a holistic embrace and integration of these tools into our ecosystems. I understand that your use case is different, so AI may help handicapped people. Nothing wrong with that. The problem is that the term AI encompasses many things, and a lot of AI led to quality decay. There is a reason why Microsoft is now called Microslop. Personally I'd much prefer for AI to go away. It won't go away, of co…

> There is a reason why Microsoft is now called Microslop. Because young people repeat things they see on social media?

You mean Micro$lop or the classic M$?

Re: Debian decides not to decide on AI-generated contributions

#218
post #199
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What tool did you use ? I routinely generate applications for my personal use using OpenCode + Claude Sonnet/Opus. Yesterday I generated an app for my son to learn multiplication tables using spaced repetition algorithm and score keeping. It took me like 5 minutes. Of course if you use ChatGPT it will not work but there is no way Claude Code/Open Code with any modern model isn't able to generate a one hundred line sc…

Are we still doing the "your fault for not using this other model" thing? It's a bit of a tired trope at this point.

I mean, the person above complaining about it not being able to create a simple thing is absolutely holding them wrong! They aren’t feeding the right context, aren’t using the correct tools or harnesses, who knows. But the problem exists between keyboard and chair, so to speak.

I’m constantly amazed at the amount of scope I can now one-shot with Claude Code. It can crank out multi command cli apps with almost zero hand holding beyond telling what to generate… you know, the hard part. And then we’ll back and forth to refine the working thing it built.

Re: Debian decides not to decide on AI-generated contributions

#219

If it works, it's not wrong. Wasting any time or energy on determining whether or not the source is AI is stupid. If all the requirements are met, in terms of style guide, documentation, functionality, thorough testing and correctness, then it's good. Doesn't matter if AI wrote it, or if it's artisanal hand-crafted bytecode lovingly prepared by a native of Computronistan. The trick is to define what works - set the b…

[deleted]

Re: Debian decides not to decide on AI-generated contributions

#220

My two cents: I've been coding practically my entire life, but a few years back I sustained a pretty significant and lasting injury to my wrists. As such, I have very little tolerance for typing. It's been quite a problem and made full time work impossible. With the advent of LLMs, AI-autocomplete, and agent-based development workflows, my ability to deliver reliable, high-quality code is restored and (arguably) bett…

For projects, it's also a licensing issue. You don't own the copyright on AI generated code, no one does, so it can't be licensed.

That is only true for trivial projects that require no human creativity. For such simple projects not having copyright for it is not a big deal.
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