Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

cbc.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 583 posts

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#211

Post by Dusseldorf »

Aurornis wrote: post #201
WalterGR wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would have preferred permanent standard time to permanent daylight time. Do you have children? In past HN threads, the preference largely comes down to whether you have children (and want more early morning light for safer trips to school) or not.

When we had kids I thought daylight savings time was going to be some kind of nightmare because ever DST thread on the internet cites children as the reason why's it terrible. Then it was a complete non-issue for our kids. I had this conversation with several parent friends and they couldn't figure it out either. At most we've had a day or two where the kids wake up 10-20 minutes later than the target time, but it's…

Some people think that if their toddler misses naptime by 5 minutes it will be a disaster. Fairly sure it's just a vocal minority kind of thing. Totally with you though, our kids never seem to notice.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#212

Post by illusive4080 »

jcranmer wrote: post #17
jonny_eh wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's "standard" for a reason. Humanity settled on these numbers long ago because they work best. It boggles my mind why anyone would choose otherwise since what we do at any given hour is arbitrary.

A lot of people hate standard time in winter because the sun sets at 4 or 5, and they want the sun to instead set at 8 or 9 like it does in summer. DST in winter doesn't actually give you the 8 or 9 sunset, it gives you a 5 or 6 sunset (which doesn't get you all that much) combined with moving your sunrise to 8 or 9, which causes its own set of issues most people don't think about. The last time we went to year-round…

Despite all this I am a permanent DST fan. However I’ll be happy with permanent anything over the current madness

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#213

Post by kshacker »

water-data-dude wrote: post #92

Everyone else is throwing in there 2¢, so here's my pet proposal. Here's the undeniable fact: everyone (ok, almost everyone, but it's a rounding error) hates the switchover in spring, when you have to get up an hour earlier. Conversely, everyone (or a rough approximation) likes the switchover in the fall, when we get to sleep in an extra hour. So why don't we just get rid of the switchover in the spring and get rid o…

So maybe make the day a bit shorter, same 24 hours same 60 minutes, just shorter by a few seconds, so that we can add an extra hour every quarter.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#214

Post by tempestn »

emptybits wrote: post #15

I'm in BC. The astro-nerd in me would have preferred to see permanent Standard Time instead of a permanent +1 offset. Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset and the solar cue of "high noon" is also a real thing. I'm sure I've read that sleep health experts have historically supported a change to permanent Standard Time, not DST. I respect there are economic arguments for pe…

In the winter I can see arguments both ways (though I'm personally in the evening light is better camp). But in the summer, it already gets light earlier than almost anyone would want to be awake. An extra hour of sunlight at 4am is little benefit to anyone, and likely just makes it harder to sleep. Light evenings in the summer are wonderful though. I think part of the health argument against DST is that those light evenings make it harder to get to sleep at night, which is fair, but I still wouldn't want to give them up!

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#215

Post by anal_reactor »

Most people agree that changing the clock twice a year is silly, for obvious reasons. Still, there's a small minority that thinks that the existing system is good, for obvious reasons. Among those who want to abolish time zone change, there's roughly 50/50 split between those who prefer permanent summer time for obvious reasons, and those who prefer permanent winter time for obvious reasons. There are a few more exotic ideas floating around - many of which are obviously better than any of mainstream ones, but they unfortunately have a low chance of being adopted.

The end result is probably going to be more and more fracture on local level, as smal units of administration adopt their favorite solutions. This is obviously bad for doing business between units of administration, and obviously good for circadian rhythms of the people living within given unit. One thing obviously has more importance than the other.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#216

Post by tempestn »

pwg wrote: post #141
emptybits wrote: post #15

I'm in BC. The astro-nerd in me would have preferred to see permanent Standard Time instead of a permanent +1 offset. Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset and the solar cue of "high noon" is also a real thing. I'm sure I've read that sleep health experts have historically supported a change to permanent Standard Time, not DST. I respect there are economic arguments for pe…

> Oh well, I am in the minority it seems. Given it one winter season across the solstice and I'd bet a lot of your fellow residents will come around to your viewpoint.

I'm really curious how people will feel about it after experiencing a year of continuous PDT. I expect I'll personally like it, but the polling will be interesting for sure.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#217

Post by mapt »

emptybits wrote: post #15

I'm in BC. The astro-nerd in me would have preferred to see permanent Standard Time instead of a permanent +1 offset. Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset and the solar cue of "high noon" is also a real thing. I'm sure I've read that sleep health experts have historically supported a change to permanent Standard Time, not DST. I respect there are economic arguments for pe…

If you have a problem with school start times, you could also just change school start times.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#218

Post by tempestn »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #108
throw0101c wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If US states want to get rid of time switches they are free to go to year-round Standard Time (like Arizona).

You're saying the federal government granted blanket authorization to switch to the one? So the only reason states wait on authorization is merely obtusely insisting on the wrong choice? (In addition to being impotent.) The more I learn about this issue the more things I find to be angry about.

Permanent DST being the "wrong" choice is your opinion, and a minority one. Certainly doesn't make those who disagree "morons".

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#219

Post by pkulak »

jorvi wrote: post #143
emptybits wrote: post #15

I'm in BC. The astro-nerd in me would have preferred to see permanent Standard Time instead of a permanent +1 offset. Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset and the solar cue of "high noon" is also a real thing. I'm sure I've read that sleep health experts have historically supported a change to permanent Standard Time, not DST. I respect there are economic arguments for pe…

> Instinctively, I think morning light is important to our biology for a daily reset I'd bet people would happily trade away the inkling of light they get during their winter commute before locking themselves into their office for some extra daylight when they leave that office. Daylight is most enjoyable if you can actually make use of it.

That's what everyone says. But it turns out people hate spending their morning in darkness for more light at night. Which makes perfect sense:

https://washingtonian.com/2022/03/15/the-us-tried-permanent-...

> the inkling of light they get during their winter commute

It's not an inkling. Unless you roll out of bed and instantly onto your commute, you're getting natural sunlight through all your windows for hours every morning. That's exactly when you need it.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#220

Post by [deleted] »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #58
bryanlarsen wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Average school start/end times in BC are 8:30 AM and 3 PM. Standard time in Vancouver puts sunrise/sunset at 8AM/415PM at winter solstice for standard time. That's 30 minutes of daylight before school and 75 minutes after school. IOW, kids are more likely to be walking in the dark in the morning, even with standard time. Switching to daylight time will switch sunrise/sunset to 9AM/515PM, guaranteeing kids will be wal…

P.S. Switching to daylight time makes more sense in Eastern BC than it does in Western BC. But Eastern BC is relatively unpopulated. The population of Penticton is 40,000 vs 3,000,000 in metro Vancouver. Second largest metro (Victoria) is west of Vancouver. Penticton experiences sunrise/sunset about 25 minutes before Vancouver, so their kids experience approximately equal amounts of sun before & after school on the w…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN