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/e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

e.foundation

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Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#211

Post by Tharre »

goldenarm wrote: post #191
Tharre wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tweaking user-hostile OSes into user-friendly ones is impressive, but not sustainable. Even worse, it slowing us down from leaving Android entirely. Not sustainable as opposed to what, exactly? Developing and maintaining a completely different mobile operating system? Focusing on truly open platforms sound nice in theory, but completely falls apart the moment you consider what people want to do with their phones co…

(Reposting my comment from below) Brave said they'll try to maintain temporarily limited MV2 support for only 4 specific extensions, but recommend Brave Shields as the go-to adblocker for the future. Google is about to remove most of the MV2 code from the codebase, which will explode the complexity soon. https://brave.com/blog/brave-shields-manifest-v3/

The word "temporarily" isn't mentioned anywhere on that page, and that's already a very different claim to "Brave is about to shut down MV2". And the MV2 support is not specific to those 4 extensions, the hosting on Brave's servers is (though for other extensions not that much changes with MV3 anyway).

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#212

Post by abighamb »

abustamam wrote: post #154
enriquto wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the app my electricity utility provides for viewing and paying my account DISABLES ITSELF FOREVER if you so much as enable USB debugging on your phone (even after you've disabled it again). These are self-inflicted problems by these apps. Nothing to do with the OS. These apps simply don't work. Complain to the companies that push these broken apps to you. Would you buy a microwave oven that kills itself if you play…

The problems may be inflicted by these apps but the reality is that in many cases you're stuck with them. Electric company freezes your account if you enable USB debugging? Well, you can't choose a new electric company. We can complain to these vendors all we want but they just ignore us. So these problems become problems of the OS, not because the OS has a problem, but because it affects the reality of using the OS.

Is it such a burden to write them a letter stating, "Because you have decided to disable my electronic access, I am notifying you that I withdraw my consent to e-delivery. Please provide me statements and directions to mail you a check for payment." Maybe spend 20-30 min to find the specific laws that give you the right to do that and remind them of their timelines to comply.

Send a letter like that certified. It gets attention, and the time to write and mail a check really isn't, if you batch your bills, more than using an app.

We do have ways to push their inconvenience back on them.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#213

Post by goldenarm »

Mordisquitos wrote: post #164
goldenarm wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can call Android user hostile. Most Banks and gov apps require play services nowadays, and Google is about to ban app installation outside of their store. Cherry on top, the play store is mostly adware junk. My parents phones are full of adware, bloatware, notification spam, it's almost worse than windows 11.

In your earlier comment you said that deGoogled Android alternatives are what's "slowing us down from leaving Android entirely" , but that is not consistent with saying that most banks and government apps require play services. If these apps cannot run on deGoogled Android, then deGoogled Android cannot be slowing us down from leaving Android because using deGoogled alternatives is as inconvenient for banking and gov…

There are tweaks to enable banking apps on deGoogled Android, but it's an exhausting cat and mouse game. Most of my friends gave up after years of fighting, and now they are back on Google Android because there is no alternative.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#214

Post by goldenarm »

RandyOrion wrote: post #139
goldenarm wrote: post #9

Tweaking user-hostile OSes into user-friendly ones is impressive, but not sustainable. Even worse, it slowing us down from leaving Android entirely. Look at the AdBlocker crackdown of Google Chrome. Every single chrome-fork has shut down MV2 extensions, even Brave is about to do it, because it is impossible to maintain features that complex on a browser that Google spends >$1B/year to develop. Same story for /e/ and…

> Every single chrome-fork has shut down MV2 extensions Ungoogled chromium still supports MV2, and uBlock origin extension works fine.

Yes it's behind a flag, but the removal of MV2 from multiple parts of the codebase is imminent.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#215

Post by goldenarm »

Tharre wrote: post #211
goldenarm wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Reposting my comment from below) Brave said they'll try to maintain temporarily limited MV2 support for only 4 specific extensions, but recommend Brave Shields as the go-to adblocker for the future. Google is about to remove most of the MV2 code from the codebase, which will explode the complexity soon. https://brave.com/blog/brave-shields-manifest-v3/

The word "temporarily" isn't mentioned anywhere on that page, and that's already a very different claim to "Brave is about to shut down MV2". And the MV2 support is not specific to those 4 extensions, the hosting on Brave's servers is (though for other extensions not that much changes with MV3 anyway).

MV2 is behind a flag for now, but it is about to be removed from the Chrome codebase entirely. Which is why Brave recommends using Brave Shields as the long-term solution, which does not depend on it.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#216

Post by amelius »

dminik wrote: post #96
Arch-TK wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google's hardware is just hardware. It is not locked down like the hardware of many other manufacturers. Moreover, it's the only such hardware which also allows you, the user, to lock it down for your own security. GrapheneOS is not just focused around avoiding Google, it's more accurately focused around security and user choice. The goal is to give you the option to avoid needing to rely on Google's spying or servic…

A large part of "degoogling" to me means "stop giving google money" and "cut off Google entirely from my life". If I have to give Google a lot of money every 4-6 years to remain "de-googled" then I never was.

I don't think Google makes a lot of profit on Pixel phones.

The real profit comes from their advertising business.

Maybe the phones are even subsidized by the ad business.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#217

Post by fsflover »

RGamma wrote: post #117
fsflover wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(GNU/)Linux on mobile is the true sustanable, independent OS. It relies on the existing, strong Linux development, natively runs existing Linux apps and guarantees you lifetime updates. What else do you need? Sent from my Librem 5.

How well do communication apps work on it (Whatsapp, Signal, Discord)? Backups? Media (not as important)? Increasingly thinking of relegating my iPhone to 2FA and maybe banking only.

> Backups?

Everything that works on desktop GNU/Linux should work on the phone, too. I use Pika Backup app.

> communication

AFAIK none of the apps you listed officially support Linux ARM, so you have to go through some configuration unfortunately. I do not use any of them, I use Matrix.

> Signal

https://forums.puri.sm/t/signal-app-now-usable-in-portrait-m...

https://framapiaf.org/@lolgzs/113010288224110061

> Whatsapp ... Discord

https://forums.puri.sm/t/how-to-install-whatsapp-and-discord...

https://forums.puri.sm/t/librem-5-web-whatsapp-com-not-worki...

https://source.puri.sm/libremos/tasking/-/issues/1

> Media

Are you talking about watching videos and listening to music? It works fine.

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#218

Post by em-bee »

jdcaron wrote: post #201
em-bee wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

same here, except for banking apps. the one i am supposed to use now doesn't work.

As long as banking works with web browsers, I think the future looks good for this usage, but I could de-bank my phone and still have plenty of useful things to do with it.

the problem in my case is that the authentication for the banks website requires an app, and that app doesn't work. i am locked out of online banking for that bank because of it. (they also have a windows app that i could not yet get to work on linux/wine)

Re: /e/OS is a complete, fully “deGoogled” mobile ecosystem

#220

Post by fsflover »

malka1986 wrote: post #209
fsflover wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47216763

I have exactly 0 choice of banks app that would run on a mobile OS that is neither android or google. At the end of the day, I need a bank account, and access to it, would it only be for buying food, or paying my mortgage.

If you're in Europe, I saw quite a few comments here saying that banks not requiring the duopoly do exist. Otherwise, a dedicated banking phone might be the way.
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