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$30B for laptops yielded a generation less cognitively capable than parents

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Re: $30B for laptops yielded a generation less cognitively capable than parents

#211

Post by maerF0x0 »

freeopinion wrote: post #123
maerF0x0 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're spouting off unsubstantiated claims. I'll add teachers unions and the mandatory spend of tax money on their near monopolies versus a voucher system that allows parents to choose the best education the money can buy. (To be clear I do think we should fund educating our children, I disagree with forcing the purchase to go to a specific solution / system)

If you are looking for reform, consider rethinking how much "education" the public should fund. Should we keep paying to have every student sit through Algebra and Geometry if less than 15% of them can pass the proficiency test afterward? Can we require people to pass proficiency tests before we fund their education past the 6th grade? 8th grade? Can we require a student to be able to read at a 3rd grade level before…

> Public should fund ... Algebra and Geometry

Yes.

But, the point of my post is that funding should not go to the underperforming public school systems and their unions. Instead parents should be free to purchase the education that delivers the most value for their dollar in a freemarket. But, because I do believe we should educate the kids of poor / low income parents, IMO we should still have public funding (a form of redistribution). Voucher systems is one such way this can be enacted.

> Can we require people to pass proficiency tests before we fund their education past the 6th grade? 8th grade...

IMO Kids should not be defunded for the failings of the adults around them. I do not believe it's basically ever a child's fault up to ~18-21 they are simply a product of the choices of the adults around them. Normal psychology says once someone is an adult then they may not be at fault, but they are responsible to handle and take care of whatever their childhood may have unfairly burdened them with...

Re: $30B for laptops yielded a generation less cognitively capable than parents

#212

Post by tsoukase »

Cognitive weakness, at least in the West, go in parallel with other social phenomena: diminishing fertility, finacial deterioration (then one job fed 6, now two are not enough for 3), smart devices that make people dumb, trendy wars, stress/depression pandemia etc

Some are causes and the rest results but nobody knows which ones: the egg made the chicken or the chicken the egg?

Re: $30B for laptops yielded a generation less cognitively capable than parents

#213

Post by DauntingPear7 »

wasntitlower wrote: post #51
maerF0x0 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also we do not know if those kids are better at skills that are more relevant today -- coding, social media marketing, deciding between health insurance and bread.

I thought we were in the middle of a tech literacy downturn. I might be wrong, and I don't want to necessarily google "is X happening" because that looks like it yields articles that affirm it, and I don't know what a trustworthy source would be. Either way, I don't live in a place where laptops were pushed to teens, but I do know uni teachers who told me some horrifying tales about freshmen, like ones who could not…

There was an article that interviewed a film prof at my current uni and he said that students nowadays can’t understand or answer very simple questions about the plot of a film, despite being film majors

Re: $30B for laptops yielded a generation less cognitively capable than parents

#214

Post by maerF0x0 »

vineyardmike wrote: post #120
maerF0x0 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're spouting off unsubstantiated claims. I'll add teachers unions and the mandatory spend of tax money on their near monopolies versus a voucher system that allows parents to choose the best education the money can buy. (To be clear I do think we should fund educating our children, I disagree with forcing the purchase to go to a specific solution / system)

I'm glad you recognize that you're participating in unsubstantiated claims, because that is most of the literature in support of vouchers. Vouchers sound good if you don't think about it with any real veracity or intellectually serious rigor, but (in America) are basically a shitty partisan scam. They're basically universally used as a method to divert tax funds to schools that would otherwise be unfundable via taxes…

ChatGPT suggests there's no evidence that home schooling leads to inferior outcomes. But I'm open to hear from you... I'd love to hear some evidence otherwise as I'm considering homeschooling my own children one day.

Re: $30B for laptops yielded a generation less cognitively capable than parents

#215

Post by dataflow »

adrian_b wrote: post #185
dataflow wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is not the budget. It is the lack of real teachers, as well as a perpetually experimental curriculum. Taking this at face value: how are you teasing apart "lack of real teachers" from the budget? You don't think you'd get real teachers if there was a higher budget to pay them well? > The quality of education my kids are getting is pure trash compared to what I received. How are you doing this comparison…

You say that in USA there are no good teachers because any that are good will find better-paying professions? This sounds plausible. Like the previous poster, I have grown in an Eastern European country where everybody was extremely poor by today's standards. Education was not perfect and there were many mediocre teachers and even bad teachers. However, there were also a great number of very good teachers, so there w…

> You say that in USA there are no good teachers

No, that is not remotely what I'm saying. It's both entirely factually false and also a ridiculous extrapolation to make to a country of hundreds of millions of people.

> because any that are good will find better-paying professions?

What I am saying is that to the extent the parent may have encountered bad teachers (taking what they said at face value, whether it's accurate or not), this could be a big part of the explanation. i.e. I find it dubious that the budget would be unrelated to whatever they believe the teacher quality is. That's all I'm saying.

Re: $30B for laptops yielded a generation less cognitively capable than parents

#216

Post by dataflow »

mlrtime wrote: post #186
dataflow wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is not the budget. It is the lack of real teachers, as well as a perpetually experimental curriculum. Taking this at face value: how are you teasing apart "lack of real teachers" from the budget? You don't think you'd get real teachers if there was a higher budget to pay them well? > The quality of education my kids are getting is pure trash compared to what I received. How are you doing this comparison…

>You don't think you'd get real teachers if there was a higher budget to pay them well? No, this has been proven many times that money is not a leading factor: Just one : https://eric.ed.gov/?id=ED418160 The only clear indication of student performance is parent participation and involvement.

> No, this has been proven many times that money is not a leading factor: Just one : https://eric.ed.gov/?id=ED418160 The only clear indication of student performance is parent participation and involvement.

No, we're talking about teacher quality, not student performance. Obviously they are not the same thing. You even listed some factors that affect them differently.

Re: $30B for laptops yielded a generation less cognitively capable than parents

#217

Post by itishappy »

Noumenon72 wrote: post #133
itishappy wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No teacher (or parent) has ever managed to lock down a computer that was in my possession to a level where I wouldn't get distracted by it. You could shut the power off, and I'd still be poking around the hardware. I spent hundreds of hours programming my calculator instead of paying attention in class. Informative? Yes. Distracting to myself and those around me? You bet. I completely agree with your phone take. Ther…

We could reduce it to the level of distraction of a notebook and pen. Grayscale would help.

For sure, I love my ReMarkable, but I think of it as an expensive toy. It functions slightly worse than a notebook and pen for over 100x the cost. I suppose it would enable students to save their notes digitally, but at no point have I ever felt the need to return to my earth science notes. In fact, I have fond memories of burning all my high school notebooks immediately after graduation.

Re: $30B for laptops yielded a generation less cognitively capable than parents

#218

Post by vjvjvjvjghv »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #184
bubblewand wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you have stats on that? It seems like an outlier No stats, but it’s extremely real. I know lots of teachers. Parents who flip shit if their kids can’t answer their texts while in class are common. Parents who call their kids in class just to chat are less common, but not as one-in-a-million as you’d think. The attitude you (I’m assuming) and I were raised with, when it comes to school, is less universal than you pe…

OK so in fact parents who want their kids to be able to communicate with them as needed, not parents who want their kids to be able to play video games when so desiring? Of course the ability to do the first gives the ability to do the second, but I think we can agree that they don't as a general rule want their kids to play video games. Again, outliers always exist. Now as to why parents want their kids to answer wh…

“ familial situations where the kid not being able to answer a text is a major disaster ”

I am having serious trouble coming up with a situation where it’s absolutely necessary for a kid to answer a text during class and not during a break or be notified by the principal office.

Re: $30B for laptops yielded a generation less cognitively capable than parents

#219

Post by vjvjvjvjghv »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #127
jimmydddd wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"--Whiny parents" is definitely a major thing and not an outlier. For an older guy like me, I was shocked by the stories I've heard recently. ---Coworker's son is acting out in class and not following any instructions. He calls the school and says the teacher is not challenging the son enough and is son is super special. ---Friend retired and took a job as an elementary school classroom aide. When she instructs a fou…

> ---Parent of third grader informs school that her daughter should be allowed to dress and act like a lion and roam around the classroom. This specific meme has been floating around with the MAGA crowd for at least 4-5 years now. It’s not clear if it has any basis in reality, but it is one of those “I heard it on Facebook so it must be true” kind of things.

Kids punching teachers without consequences is real though. Or it may even have negative consequences for the teacher who got punched.

Re: $30B for laptops yielded a generation less cognitively capable than parents

#220

Post by vjvjvjvjghv »

mlrtime wrote: post #192
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>whiny parents who rage when their children are told they can't be playing video games in class you have stats on that? It seems like an outlier. >teachers who are using computer programs to teach the kids instead of actually teaching. before laptops there were bad teachers who used books to teach the kids instead of actually teaching - as in: "read chapter 7, there will be a test!" if after laptops there is a worse…

My wife is a teacher and I know several. All of the ones that have quiet have cited the worst part about teaching isn't the money or "bad" students. It's either the parents unrealistic demands or just dealing with them, or the same with the administration. Teaching, kids or pay [although more is always better] was never the issue.

I hear the same from teachers I know. Pay could be better, some kids suck, but the real issue is parents and administration who do nothing to support the teacher.
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