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Toyota’s hydrogen-powered Mirai has experienced rapid depreciation

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Re: Toyota’s hydrogen-powered Mirai has experienced rapid depreciation

#211

Post by jeffbee »

robertjpayne wrote: post #193
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, the two major byproducts of burning hydrocarbons are water and carbon dioxide. Literally essential plant nutrients, essential for life. Tangentially related, the 2022 Hunga Tonga–Hunga Haʻapai volcanic eruption ejected so much water vapour in to the upper atmosphere, it was estimated to have ongoing climate forcing effects for up to 10 years. Water vapour is a stronger greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. And we…

Please, the media didn't report on this because natural disasters affecting the climate is not controllable by humans and thus doesn't warrant a global effort to address unless it's so large as to be species ending. Global warming is not fake, there's tons and tons of evidence it is real and the weather is getting more and more extreme as humans continue to burn petrol.

Also some time after that other guy copied and pasted his canned Hunga remark into his big spreadsheet of climate denial comments the international community of climate scientists concluded that Hunga cooled the atmosphere, on balance.

"As a consequence of the negative TOA RF, the Hunga eruption is estimated to have decreased global surface air temperature by about 0.05 K during 2022-2023; due to larger interannual variability, this temperature change cannot be observed."

https://juser.fz-juelich.de/record/1049154/files/Hunga_APARC...

Re: Toyota’s hydrogen-powered Mirai has experienced rapid depreciation

#212

Post by ViewTrick1002 »

nandomrumber wrote: post #123
aunty_helen wrote: post #60

Kinda glad this is the case. When people go out of their way to avoid common sense they should be punished. Hydrogen is such a terrible idea it was never getting off the ground. There seems to be some kind of psychosis around it being the next oil and therefore greedy people want to get in early on. But this blinds them to the basic chemistry and physics.

There is a great way to store, transport, and use hydrogen: Bind it to various length carbon chains. When burned as an energy source the two main byproducts are carbon dioxide which is an essential plant growth nutrient, and water which is also essential to plant growth. Environmentalists will love it! And they can prise my turbo diesel engines from my cold dead hands.

The problem is all the effort = energy you need to spend collecting carbon atoms.

Re: Toyota’s hydrogen-powered Mirai has experienced rapid depreciation

#213

Post by smcin »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #137
smcin wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember that China briefly embargoed Japan for rare earth metals in 2010, and Toyota launched the Mirai in 2014. My theory was that it was developed as a national fallback for Japan in case that embargo continued or got worse. Think 1930s Volkswagen. Anyone can comment on that?

Japan went heavy into hydrogen for a couple of decades ago. The only reason we are even talking about hydrogen passenger vehicles now is because Japan thought it was the future, they made a mistake.

I'm pointing out that the timeline of continuing funding it, to the point of a major model design and launch, and nationwide network of hydrogen stations, might well be linked to China's emergent REE dominance and that Japan doesn't have those raw materials.

(In some future decade/century, people might conclude that car dependency on fossil fuels, after electric from renewable became viable, was a mistake.)

Re: Toyota’s hydrogen-powered Mirai has experienced rapid depreciation

#214

Post by seanmcdirmid »

smcin wrote: post #213
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan went heavy into hydrogen for a couple of decades ago. The only reason we are even talking about hydrogen passenger vehicles now is because Japan thought it was the future, they made a mistake.

I'm pointing out that the timeline of continuing funding it, to the point of a major model design and launch, and nationwide network of hydrogen stations, might well be linked to China's emergent REE dominance and that Japan doesn't have those raw materials. (In some future decade/century, people might conclude that car dependency on fossil fuels, after electric from renewable became viable, was a mistake.)

I think Japan made their plans in the 2000s, maybe starting to gain traction in 2010, this is long before China became an EV power house or even had a dominant share of rare earth processing.

Re: Toyota’s hydrogen-powered Mirai has experienced rapid depreciation

#215

Post by nandomrumber »

idiotsecant wrote: post #195
nandomrumber wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has the hydrogen storage problem been solved yet? Last time I checked it needs to be stored in cryo / pressure vessel and it also leaks through steel and ruins its structural properties in the process.

We store hydrogen all the time for industrial processes. It's not some super science, it's just expensive.

We do? Where? Using what fabrication technologies.

I’ve worked mostly in or adjacent to manufacturing and primary industry.

As far as I’m aware, the majority of hydrogen production is use on site, and mostly for ammonia production.

There isn’t really much in the way of hydrogen storage and transportation, it’s mostly used where it’s generated.

And if we use expensive as a proxy for heavy / energy intensive, which it is in the case of hydrogen, that goes a long way to preclude it from anything like being useful for transportation.

Re: Toyota’s hydrogen-powered Mirai has experienced rapid depreciation

#216

Post by hogehoge51 »

dehrmann wrote: post #120
aunty_helen wrote: post #60

Kinda glad this is the case. When people go out of their way to avoid common sense they should be punished. Hydrogen is such a terrible idea it was never getting off the ground. There seems to be some kind of psychosis around it being the next oil and therefore greedy people want to get in early on. But this blinds them to the basic chemistry and physics.

> Hydrogen is such a terrible idea it was never getting off the ground. It's coming from Toyota because Toyota can't wrap its head around not making engines. Ironically, the place hydrogen might work is airplanes where the energy density of batteries doesn't work.

WTF , you are commenting about FCEV - these things dont have engines!

The strategy clearly stated by Akio Toyoda is multiple power train technology. You can listen to his interviews on the subject, some are in Japanese, but as you have stated a clear and unambiguous interpretation of Toyota's policy I will assume you have that fluency.

(Automotive OEMs are assemblers, the parts come from the supply chain starting with Tier 1 suppliers. In that sense TMC does not do "making engines", but possibly the nuance and consequences here of whether not it "wraps it's head" to "makes things", vs if it has the capability to specify, manufacture distribute something at scale with a globally localized supply chain AND adjust to consumer demand/resource availability changes 5 years after the design start - in this context i ask you, can you "wrap your head" around the latest models that are coming out in every power train technology fcev, (p)hev to bev)

Re: Toyota’s hydrogen-powered Mirai has experienced rapid depreciation

#217

Post by mapontosevenths »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #184
mapontosevenths wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carbon Dioxide is a greenhouse gas, which makes the world warmer on average. It also lowers the PH levels of the oceans. If the oceans die, its very likely that many or even most humans will also. As a human I am pretty strongly opposed to dying, but thats just, like, my opinion man.

Take The Great Barrier Reef for example. There’s more of it now than in the reefs recorded history. Well, 2022 data: https://www.aims.gov.au/information-centre/news-and-stories/...

Bad news, there has been a fourth great bleaching event going on since January of 23. This time 80+% of all reefs have been impacted and the consensus seems to be that its unlikely there will be any reefs left at all before too long.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/oct/13/coral-re...

Re: Toyota’s hydrogen-powered Mirai has experienced rapid depreciation

#218

Post by nandomrumber »

Braxton1980 wrote: post #194
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take The Great Barrier Reef for example. There’s more of it now than in the reefs recorded history. Well, 2022 data: https://www.aims.gov.au/information-centre/news-and-stories/...

"The picture is complex. Recovery here, fresh losses there. While the recovery we reported last year was welcome news, there are challenges ahead. The spectre of global annual coral bleaching will soon become a reality." This article also mentions that a recent large recovery was due to el nino conditions "Great Barrier Reef was reeling from successive disturbances, ranging from marine heatwaves and coral bleaching t…

No one ever attract public support and funding by saying:

Don’t Panic.

Everything is O.K.

—-

Edited to add: Rate limited so can’t reply without creating more alt accounts than I’m willing to, so:

@Timon3 - that’s actually a really good point, and I follow at least a few folk that could be categorised as such at least some of the time.

Re: Toyota’s hydrogen-powered Mirai has experienced rapid depreciation

#219

Post by freetime2 »

some-guy wrote: post #153
formerly_proven wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota sells bad EVs and was the last OEM to offer one. It’s the most anti-EV OEM by far and engages/engaged in the most EV FUD.

I have only purchased Toyota vehicles (currently in the market for an EV) and it baffles me that Dodge created a Charger in EV form and Toyota hasn’t made even an EV Corolla or Camry.

> it baffles me that Dodge created a Charger in EV form and Toyota hasn’t made even an EV Corolla or Camry

Dodge's Charger EV has been a sales flop [1] and pretty much universally panned by critics as something that nobody asked for.

The Camry and Corolla were the best-selling sedan and compact sedan of 2025 [2]. I think this shows that Toyota is listening to what Corolla and Camry drivers want - something inexpensive and reliable to get them to and from work every day without issue.

Some day Toyota will make an EV sedan. I think their 2026 bZ Woodland [3] shows that they are starting to figure out how make compelling EVs. And Toyota's EV strategy seems pretty reasonable to me overall - their delays to develop a decent EV don't seem to put them under threat from any legacy automakers. They are being threatened by Chinese EV makers, but so is Tesla - so even a huge head start likely wouldn't have benefited Toyota much either in that regard.

[1] https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a69927938/dodge-charger-da...

[2] https://www.caranddriver.com/news/g64457986/bestselling-cars...

[3] https://arstechnica.com/cars/2026/02/looks-a-lot-like-an-ele...

Re: Toyota’s hydrogen-powered Mirai has experienced rapid depreciation

#220

Post by Timon3 »

nandomrumber wrote: post #218
Braxton1980 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The picture is complex. Recovery here, fresh losses there. While the recovery we reported last year was welcome news, there are challenges ahead. The spectre of global annual coral bleaching will soon become a reality." This article also mentions that a recent large recovery was due to el nino conditions "Great Barrier Reef was reeling from successive disturbances, ranging from marine heatwaves and coral bleaching t…

No one ever attract public support and funding by saying: Don’t Panic. Everything is O.K. —- Edited to add: Rate limited so can’t reply without creating more alt accounts than I’m willing to, so: @Timon3 - that’s actually a really good point, and I follow at least a few folk that could be categorised as such at least some of the time.

No, many people say exactly that and make a lot of money doing so while also telling us that all the evidence is fake.
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